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Check Engine Light Code P4020. Help!


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#1 Frank G

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 10:24 PM

Hi my name is Frank. I have a Mercury Mystique V6 1997 car. I have the CEL on and I get P4020 as the code. I know it has something to do with the catylytic converter. I had my rear converter replaced for $340.00. I was wondering how much the front one is? I had an O2 Sensor replaced when I had the converter done. The sensor was like $200.

They first replace the converter. Then it came back on and, the sensor was put in. My GS unfortuanitly has two converters. It has 88,000k Thousand miles on it and besides that it works great. Never stalled or anything (Knock On Wood). There does seem to be some polusion out of the muffler. Right now I do not know how to do anything on my car myself but, would really like to.


The mechanic I go to said the part was $250 for my car so I was wondering is the front converter more money. I looked around and it seems to be more.

Please help and give all advice and as much as you can. Thanks.

#2 Frank G

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:15 PM

I mean code P0420. I couldn't edit my post so sorry for double posting.


Edited by Frank G, 04 June 2010 - 09:17 PM.


#3 jeffmknight

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 11:21 PM

Well, Frank, the p0420 code is from the rear bank. Since the catalytic converter is fresh, it's not likely that it is bad already. Did your mechanic replace the upper or the lower O2 sensor? These really should be done as a set, since they work together to monitor the catalyst efficiency. The PCM compares the two to determine how well the cat is working.

If you've not had any trouble with stumbling or rough idle, it's unlikely that you have a vacuum leak (which can also cause the p0420 code). I would suggest checking the electrical connections to the rear bank O2 sensors first. Then if that doesn't do it, go after the O2 that wasn't replaced already. The sensors themselves are only about $35-40, and not very much work. It's about as easy as replacing a spark plug, except that you have to be under the car to do it. This would be a good way for you to begin getting to know your motor. If you need help locating things or tips on how to do something, don't be shy. I love getting under my car and taking pictures to help out a fellow Contique-er. And there are lots of people on here who are eager to help.

#4 Frank G

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 11:45 PM

Well, Frank, the p0420 code is from the rear bank. Since the catalytic converter is fresh, it's not likely that it is bad already. Did your mechanic replace the upper or the lower O2 sensor? These really should be done as a set, since they work together to monitor the catalyst efficiency. The PCM compares the two to determine how well the cat is working.

If you've not had any trouble with stumbling or rough idle, it's unlikely that you have a vacuum leak (which can also cause the p0420 code). I would suggest checking the electrical connections to the rear bank O2 sensors first. Then if that doesn't do it, go after the O2 that wasn't replaced already. The sensors themselves are only about $35-40, and not very much work. It's about as easy as replacing a spark plug, except that you have to be under the car to do it. This would be a good way for you to begin getting to know your motor. If you need help locating things or tips on how to do something, don't be shy. I love getting under my car and taking pictures to help out a fellow Contique-er. And there are lots of people on here who are eager to help.



Thanks for all the information Jeff. I know they only replaced one sensor. So I would just have to jack up one side of the car to get under it? Or should I have two jacks one on each side? I've never done this before but I want to be an auto mechanic so no time like the present lol. I will look at the receipt tomorrow and see which sensor was replaced. I know they only did one for a fact but I have to check because the bill was $220 bucks. They are honest people. I have been going there for 10 years now and they always told me the truth when others gave me telephone numbers as estimates lol. They wanted to change all the O2 sensors and the two converters at this other place and said it would be thousands of dollars. I just left and never went there again. They had every peice of computerized equiptment that they owned hooked up to the car.

Please get back to me on jacking the car up so I can get to the sensors when you can. Thanks again and, thanks for posting to my thread.

#5 jeffmknight

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 11:23 AM

Thanks for all the information Jeff. I know they only replaced one sensor. So I would just have to jack up one side of the car to get under it? Or should I have two jacks one on each side? I've never done this before but I want to be an auto mechanic so no time like the present lol. I will look at the receipt tomorrow and see which sensor was replaced. I know they only did one for a fact but I have to check because the bill was $220 bucks. They are honest people. I have been going there for 10 years now and they always told me the truth when others gave me telephone numbers as estimates lol. They wanted to change all the O2 sensors and the two converters at this other place and said it would be thousands of dollars. I just left and never went there again. They had every peice of computerized equiptment that they owned hooked up to the car.

Please get back to me on jacking the car up so I can get to the sensors when you can. Thanks again and, thanks for posting to my thread.


No problem, Frank. Jacking one side should be sufficient, but both would be better. I've only been under my car which is lowered, so I'm not sure how much of a squeeze you've got there.. and I'm a skinny double-jointed fellow so all I need is a few inches of lift.

As far as the sensor goes, definitely check the connections first off as they are extremely sensitive to moisture and salt. There's a connector about twelve inches from each sensor, that's where you'll want to start. Disconnect them and inspect the insides and terminals for any sign of contamination. Usually it will manifest in the form of a white and/or red-rusty color. If all looks good there, then go to the next step.

You may want to check and be sure the precat has not failed again. Do this by removing the exhaust y-pipe to look into the cats. This only takes about 20-30 minutes to do, so it may be a good step to take before throwing parts at it. I know you mentioned you had some pollution out the back so I'm wondering if there's oil or gas getting into the cat. This will ruin it in a hurry by overheating the element. When I got my SVT, the rear precat had blown, which also clogged and damaged the main cat (as well as other stuff). This is why the previous owner sold it to me, because they had just rebuilt the motor ($6600) and then the shops said it would be another $1500-$2000+ for all three cats. You should check out my first ever FCO thread to read the whole story and see what the meltdown looked like: http://www.fordconto...897 I was way new to this stuff back then, as evident in the thread, but thanks to some patience and lots of help from the members here I was good to go in no time. I gutted the precats and installed MIL Elim's. These are cheap and easy to make from Radio Shack parts. They are installed on the aft-cat O2s, fooling the PCM into thinking all is well with the precats, but they still allow the first set of O2s to do their job as far as fuel/air adjustments. Aside from the cost of a new main cat and registration, I had the car on the road for less than $10. Not bad considering what the shops had estimated!

Some people really like their mechanics... I know. They often make things look so easy. It's nice to be able to take your car in with what seems like a stumper, and be able to have it back a short time later right as rain, for a price. The fact is, though, that you can save a huge amount of your hard-earned moolah by doing the work yourself, and come out with the same if not better success rate than a shop. If you have some time and desire as well as a garage and some simple tools, you can do most anything on your car. Only thing I take mine in for is tire mounting and final alignment. $220 does seem a little high for an O2 replacement, especially considering they were only doing one when both really need to be done together. I think, once you've tried working on your Mystique, you'll never want to throw your money at another shop again.

Let us know what you find, and like I said before, don't be shy. Ask lots of questions -- there's no such thing as a dumb one. Feel free to attach pictures whenever possible, too. This is the "gold" that other visitors are looking for when they have a problem. Good luck.

#6 Frank G

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 12:11 PM

No problem, Frank. Jacking one side should be sufficient, but both would be better. I've only been under my car which is lowered, so I'm not sure how much of a squeeze you've got there.. and I'm a skinny double-jointed fellow so all I need is a few inches of lift.

As far as the sensor goes, definitely check the connections first off as they are extremely sensitive to moisture and salt. There's a connector about twelve inches from each sensor, that's where you'll want to start. Disconnect them and inspect the insides and terminals for any sign of contamination. Usually it will manifest in the form of a white and/or red-rusty color. If all looks good there, then go to the next step.

You may want to check and be sure the precat has not failed again. Do this by removing the exhaust y-pipe to look into the cats. This only takes about 20-30 minutes to do, so it may be a good step to take before throwing parts at it. I know you mentioned you had some pollution out the back so I'm wondering if there's oil or gas getting into the cat. This will ruin it in a hurry by overheating the element. When I got my SVT, the rear precat had blown, which also clogged and damaged the main cat (as well as other stuff). This is why the previous owner sold it to me, because they had just rebuilt the motor ($6600) and then the shops said it would be another $1500-$2000+ for all three cats. You should check out my first ever FCO thread to read the whole story and see what the meltdown looked like: http://www.fordconto...897 I was way new to this stuff back then, as evident in the thread, but thanks to some patience and lots of help from the members here I was good to go in no time. I gutted the precats and installed MIL Elim's. These are cheap and easy to make from Radio Shack parts. They are installed on the aft-cat O2s, fooling the PCM into thinking all is well with the precats, but they still allow the first set of O2s to do their job as far as fuel/air adjustments. Aside from the cost of a new main cat and registration, I had the car on the road for less than $10. Not bad considering what the shops had estimated!

Some people really like their mechanics... I know. They often make things look so easy. It's nice to be able to take your car in with what seems like a stumper, and be able to have it back a short time later right as rain, for a price. The fact is, though, that you can save a huge amount of your hard-earned moolah by doing the work yourself, and come out with the same if not better success rate than a shop. If you have some time and desire as well as a garage and some simple tools, you can do most anything on your car. Only thing I take mine in for is tire mounting and final alignment. $220 does seem a little high for an O2 replacement, especially considering they were only doing one when both really need to be done together. I think, once you've tried working on your Mystique, you'll never want to throw your money at another shop again.

Let us know what you find, and like I said before, don't be shy. Ask lots of questions -- there's no such thing as a dumb one. Feel free to attach pictures whenever possible, too. This is the "gold" that other visitors are looking for when they have a problem. Good luck.


WOW! Your a big help and I appreciate it so much. You have given me so much information. While I am under the car I will take the pictures to show you what is going on there and then I will let you tell me what to do and advise me. What tools would I need to do this job? All I have is tools for fixing computers. I am great at building computers and I am self tought so I don't think there will be a problem with me learning cars as long as I have you to teach me which you are doing.

Thanks so much for caring I do really appreciate all of this. I will do this on a weekday because I live in a community town home so there are cars all over. I will do it weekday so all the cars are gone so I can get to work. Is the jack that comes with the car to change the tire good to use? My main question is what jack and what tools I would need? Thanks so much Jeff. Your great.

#7 Frank G

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 02:11 PM

Sorry for double post but, I couldn't edit my original message to you Jeff.


Ok I keep all the reciepts to the car that the mechanic does on my car. Here is what he did.

-First it was a Vac Hose that they repaired for $70 bucks.
-Then The Cat converter part # f5rz5e212d. Parts and labor came to $345.95
-Then The One O2 sensor wich was $100 dollars and it was part number f5rz9f4t2b for Cat Code 430 and 440. I don't know what those codes mean but, I am sure you do lol.

They did recalabrate the PCM also after the Cat converter was put in.

Ok now maybe you have a better idea of what to do or lead me in the right direction better than you did. Thanks again Jeff.

#8 jeffmknight

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 08:14 PM

All I've ever used is my stock jack, really. I had a lo-pro jack from Wal Mart but it didn't fit under my car. I had to start with the stocker and then slip the lo-pro in there. Finally just returned it for the $ LOL. However, the experts will tell you to always use jackstands to support the vehicle. I'm a bit on the crazy side, and so far I haven't been crushed by my car (knock on wood) but I will tell you the same: Safety First.

Now, for those codes. The 430 was for the front (bank 2) precat, which it sounds like they replaced. The 440 code was for an evap system problem, and I suspect this was fixed with the vacuum hose you mentioned. The new 420 code is for the rear (bank 1) precat. Sounds to me like the light bulb thing: when one burns out, replace them both because the other one's about to go, too.

When a precat goes into meltdown, it will often damage the downstream O2 sensor also. On mine, since I was gutting the precats and installing MIL Elims, there was no need to replace the damaged O2. The MIL Elim basically bypasses the downstream O2 so that the upstream is the only one functioning. When you're under the car looking up at the catalytic converter, you'll see the O2s on the body of the cat, one before the chamber and one after. The look kind of like spark plugs with four small wires each. If you do have a failed precat and you don't want to spend the big bucks on a new one, you can gut the catalytic elements (both precats must be done together) and make yourself some MIL Elims. The catalytic elements are full of carcinogens, though, so this must be done very carefully. We can get into that more once you figure out what's really going on.

All you'll need to remove the y-pipe is some wrenches. I can't remember what size the nuts are, I think 15mm. If you have ratcheting-end wrenches, those work best here. Otherwise, a regular set of box-ends will do, plus a socket set where applicable will make things faster. To do the O2 sensor, you'll need a good sized open-ended adjustable (crescent) wrench. If you have an O2 socket (basically a deep socket with a slot in the side for the wires to pass thru) this is the best tool for the sensors. You'll want to soak the nuts in WD-40 or PB Blaster ahead of time because they like to seize up, and also the O2 sensors where they thread into the cat body. In fact, if you're not going anywhere until after you do the job, go ahead and spray them now. The more soaking time, the better. You can get a good look at the whole setup while you're under there to have a better understanding of the parts. On my car, the y-pipe is connected to each of the two precats with 2-bolt flanges, and to the main cat underneath the car with a 2-bolt ball-type joint. In addition to those 6 bolts, there is one more that the y-pipe hangs from that you'll be able to see above the main joint. Use caution when undoing the main joint as the balljoint ring may drop out. You don't want it to hit the ground because it's made of lead and any gouging will create an exhaust leak. There are also several rubber hangers that you may need to undo on the main exhaust system to lower it down and get a good look into the entry of the main cat. Look at the pictures in the link I sent you earlier very closely. Those cats are way gone, with the rear (bank 1) precat far into the meltdown stage, and the main cat beginning to melt inward with severe clogging.

Inspecting the main cat first is a good idea. This one is after the y-pipe main joint, where the system becomes one single pipe. The catalytic element should be clear of any debris. If you see any clogging of the "pores" of the main cat, then a precat has likely failed upstream. Given the 420 code, the rear precat is suspect here. This one is easy to see once the y-pipe is off. You can just look up into the chamber with a flashlight. The catalytic elements should be flat-faced and, again, the pores should be clear.

Post up again if you have any questions or need any clarification. Don't worry about double-posting, the editor is not available once you navigate away from your post. Let us know what you find.

#9 Frank G

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 09:33 PM

WOW! You did a lot to that car and, you found a diamond in the rough as they say. You sound very smart and, you sound like you know a lot about cars. I will check and do what you did.

Oh yeah one thing I dont understand is sometimes my car has more pep or pickup than normal. Its not like it was cold out or anything it was summer time and the engine when it happened in the winter the engine was not cold.

Anyway sometimes there is more maybe horsepower than others. Is this also a problem with the Cat converter. My transmission is fine and just needs to have the oil in it changed. The trany is great (knock on wood) and, has never given me a problem.


Thanks for all your help and I will get some tools first. I will buy them soon just what you said to get. I will need them in the future anyway since I want to be a mechanic. I will be going to school for it this september at a community college that has everything. Anyway thanks again and I will take the pictures also.


Oh yeah! first off safty...What should I get for safty because I don't want to be crushed lol. I am a little scared about that. I will buy the safty thing that you were talking about.

I am just curious, are you self tought? Or did you go to school to learn so much about cars?

Thanks again.

Edited by Frank G, 05 June 2010 - 09:37 PM.


#10 jeffmknight

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 04:34 PM

Well thanks. I like to think of my brain as a bunch of gears and levers LOL. But IMO I'm just scraping the surface. This is only my second car, but I've also had an RV and about 10 motorcycles over the last 10 years or so. I'm a self-taught jack of all trades, but master of none.. Much respect for you brother for going to school on this stuff doing it the right way LOL, I kind of wish I had.

Your catcon or O2 may have something to do with the power loss, but I'd think it would be more constant in that case. Are you sure you don't have any vacuum leaks? From what I understand, this could be causing the power loss and the 420 code. Basically what I'm saying is all I've described previously may not fix the issues. We've been discussing only one possibility when there are really several. I've been speaking mostly from my own experience, which I must admit is limited.

The other possibility is that the secondaries are not functioning properly, but I'm not sure how that would tie into the 420 (also a bit surprised nobody else has chimed in on this thread Posted Image ). When you notice a change in the power level, can you tell if the difference is at all RPM or is it on only one side of the 3500 RPM "switchover"? If the inconsistency only occurs above OR below the 3500 mark, then I'd suggest looking at the secondaries possibly a manifold cleaning. I know mine needs cleaning bad.

As far as safety goes, just the jackstands should do for now. If it turns out you're going to be working with the cats, though, you should buy a face mask, eye protection and some gloves. That stuff is like 10,000 cigarettes all at once Posted Image .

Also, if you're buying a bunch of tools, those ratcheting-end wrenches are a must. A quality socket set with both normal and deep sockets is good to have. I like Craftsman tools from Sears, but there's a lot of different brands that are just as good. The list goes on and on really it basically just depends on how much you're spending and what you have already.

#11 Frank G

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 05:57 PM

Well, the power loss seems to be consistant for the most part. The car picks up and will drive great but, I just sometimes get more pickup on some days. Maybe this happeneds 3 times a month that I start the car and it has more pep in it. It will never happen while driving the car. If I drive the car it is at a consistant rpm and will not give more pep. Its just sometimes I will just go to use the car and there will be more pep but, just like those 3 times a month. It is mind bogling to me.

My mechanic drove it a couple of times and says it drives good. It goes into all its gears and everything. I probably have a couple of different problems. I once brought it to have a full diagnostic check done on it and they say there was a broken bolt in the manifold? I have no idea what that means and they pulled up so many codes but, never showed them to me. they said it would be thousands to fix but that was 5 years ago lol.

So I took it to my mechanic who like I said I trust and they replaced the cat converter and what I have told you. Yeah I am surprissed no one else has jumped into this conversation but my subject says error code p4020 but its p0420 as you know. Maybe that is why knowone has jumped into the conversation. I thank you again.

Oh yeah did you ever know what that noise was coming from your engine? i did read the thread you told me to read and, I was wondering if you found out what it was.

I will buy the tools and jack first and then get to work on the car. I have to wait till I get paid to get the tools though.

Thanks again,
Frank

#12 jeffmknight

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 11:17 PM

The pep thing is interesting. I wonder if it is stuck-closed secondaries that occasionally come unstuck? Puzzling Posted Image . Perhaps you should save it for later, see if it works out once you figure out what's causing your code.

You really should check for vacuum leaks. I've heard of this causing the 420 code. Check out this thread for the vacuum hose locations: http://www.fordconto...showtopic=13053 My car used to die randomly when stopping at a red light or sometimes turning a corner at idle. I found my vacuum leak by feeling around the various hoses with the engine running. Once my finger touched the location of the cracked elbow, I heard a hissing noise. It wasn't really audible until I interrupted it.

So, are you able to tell which converter they replaced? From the previous codes you listed, it sounds like they should have been doing the front (bank 2) converter. I'm just making sure. Also, can you elaborate on the broken bolt you mentioned? Intake manifold or exhaust? That could be very important here.

The humming noise/vibration that my motor was making was what's called "moosing". It's an intake resonance issue, basically vibrating air, that seems to stem from the IAC (Idle Air Control) system. It didn't seem to affect performance, but it's a horrible noise that is appropriately named. It was so loud in my car that it was hard to hear the person sitting next to me. They, on the other hand, could hardly hear it at all! I tried replacing IAC valve but that didn't make a difference. Then I tried the "throttle hang restrictor" aka "moose fix", which did the trick. The sound/vibe is completely gone. The fix is to take a 1/2" copper pipe cap and drill a 3/16" hole in it, then insert it into the IAC line. This line is the fat hose that runs from the back corner of the motor and hooks into your intake just before the throttle plate. The other two smaller hoses are PCV lines.

#13 Frank G

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 12:18 AM

Should I check all the hoses because there are so many lol.

I really don't know too much about that broken bolt in the manifold. All they said was "there is a broken bolt in the manifold" I really should go to autozone for the full diagnostic test and then tell you all the codes they come up with becuase I am just finding one with my OBDII scanner. I probably have this code for 3 years now. Check engine light never goes off LOL. Wierd thing is the light went off so I brought it in for inspection and it passed. I didnt even reset it and then bring it in. I don't think my mechanic has a great OBDII scanner.

I am happy it passed but, now I have to figure out how to fix it because, there is low mileage on it and, I love the car lol. Plus I have no money for another haha. I don't think I could get rid of it even if I had money.

As for your engine noise...Great job on fixing it.

Just direct me in what hoses I should check.

Here is a pic of my engine.

Posted Image



#14 jeffmknight

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 05:12 PM

Well, your engine bay looks pretty clean, as I expected. But the picture is a bit too blurry to highlight anything in detail. Take a good close look at the picture in the thread I linked for you in my last post. Start the engine and let it idle while you do the following test. You'll basically have to "grope" the various fittings to find any leaks. The line I marked in yellow is the brake booster line. It is fairly short and simple so it should be easy to check that one. The one marked in red is the primary systems vacuum line, and this one gets a little more complicated. For both lines, start at the connection to the manifold and work your way back. The line marked in red splits out into three smaller lines at the back of the motor. Many of these lines have elbows or connectors that are known to crack. (My leak was in an elbow on the line which is color coded orange in my car, that feeds the EVAP Solenoid Valve. Most cars this age no longer have the colored lines, but instead have generic black hoses as a replacement.) Most of the elbows are near where the line marked in red in the picture splits into three. Some of them connect to the black device just to the left of that (as pictured), the thing with the top that looks like a cap. That's the EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid Valve, or EVR for short. A line comes back out of the EVR and heads to the EGR Valve. The EGR Valve is the UFO-looking silver thing with a vacuum hose connected into the top, just to the right (behind the word "main" in the picture). Another line goes to the Fuel Pressure Regulator which is basically near the very center of the engine. Yet another line runs to the HVAC controls at the firewall.

If there are no vacuum leaks found, then the other possiblity is that you have an intake manifold gasket leak. I believe the way you check for this is to spray starter fluid around the intake manifold gasket, in this case around the rear bank, and if the RPMs go up when you spray then there's a leak. The fluid gets sucked in thru the leak and causes the RPM to change. You'll want to run a search on here to find more info about that. It's not something I've ever done. If the broken bolt you mentioned is one from the intake manifold, I would guess that may be your problem. It would create any area of insufficient clamping force, causing the gasket to leak.

These tests, along with the cat check, are about all that I can think of trying for the code you have. Like I said before, I'm not the most experienced on this stuff. I've owned my SVT for only a year and a half. I invite the mods and senior members to challenge my ideas and share new ones. I am glad to share what I know and enjoy learning stuff along the way. It's all part of my obsession -- Contour Love. Posted Image

#15 SVTDEMON

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 06:55 PM

Well, your engine bay looks pretty clean, as I expected. But the picture is a bit too blurry to highlight anything in detail. Take a good close look at the picture in the thread I linked for you in my last post. Start the engine and let it idle while you do the following test. You'll basically have to "grope" the various fittings to find any leaks. The line I marked in yellow is the brake booster line. It is fairly short and simple so it should be easy to check that one. The one marked in red is the primary systems vacuum line, and this one gets a little more complicated. For both lines, start at the connection to the manifold and work your way back. The line marked in red splits out into three smaller lines at the back of the motor. Many of these lines have elbows or connectors that are known to crack. (My leak was in an elbow on the line which is color coded orange in my car, that feeds the EVAP Solenoid Valve. Most cars this age no longer have the colored lines, but instead have generic black hoses as a replacement.) Most of the elbows are near where the line marked in red in the picture splits into three. Some of them connect to the black device just to the left of that (as pictured), the thing with the top that looks like a cap. That's the EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid Valve, or EVR for short. A line comes back out of the EVR and heads to the EGR Valve. The EGR Valve is the UFO-looking silver thing with a vacuum hose connected into the top, just to the right (behind the word "main" in the picture). Another line goes to the Fuel Pressure Regulator which is basically near the very center of the engine. Yet another line runs to the HVAC controls at the firewall.

If there are no vacuum leaks found, then the other possiblity is that you have an intake manifold gasket leak. I believe the way you check for this is to spray starter fluid around the intake manifold gasket, in this case around the rear bank, and if the RPMs go up when you spray then there's a leak. The fluid gets sucked in thru the leak and causes the RPM to change. You'll want to run a search on here to find more info about that. It's not something I've ever done. If the broken bolt you mentioned is one from the intake manifold, I would guess that may be your problem. It would create any area of insufficient clamping force, causing the gasket to leak.

These tests, along with the cat check, are about all that I can think of trying for the code you have. Like I said before, I'm not the most experienced on this stuff. I've owned my SVT for only a year and a half. I invite the mods and senior members to challenge my ideas and share new ones. I am glad to share what I know and enjoy learning stuff along the way. It's all part of my obsession -- Contour Love. Posted Image

Jeff thanks for handling this!

#16 jeffmknight

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:07 PM

Jeff thanks for handling this!


No problem, "T'was my civic duty." (The Theif and the Cobbler) :D

Do you have anything to add?

#17 Frank G

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 02:05 PM

No problem, "T'was my civic duty." (The Theif and the Cobbler) :D

Do you have anything to add?



I just want to say thanks so much Jeff. You have been very helpful and informative. I will look at that picture of that you linked to the thread. I just saw the yellow I guess the red blended in. I am color blind slightly so sometimes I dont see colors as red I might see it as brown LOL. Good thing I am not an electrician lol.

I will do those tests then I will get back to you In this same thread.

Thank you so much again.