16 replies to this topic

[fullyarmed101]

Here is what I have posted on the mazda6club and need help with the MTX portion of it since it's a 3.0 Duratec V6.
http://forum.mazda6c...tml#post3297767

What do you think of taking the Mazda V6 and changing it to a RWD vehicle...

Do you think it's possible?

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was thinking... if you gonna go through all that trouble why not change the trans also and make it a 6speed... hmmm.. I might have to include this in my future project... It won't start till the warranty stops though... and I have the extended one.. So hopefully I can gather all the info I need to do what I want...

Maybe a TT V6 Mazda 6 AWD... It would be intresting... lol... Once it's out of warranty my wife said I can turn it into my project car. I was really excited about that especially since the tuner is out... 2 more years there should be a lot more stuff out I hope...

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3.0 V6 RWD with a 6 speed manual trans would be nice?

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Better engine? We have a great engine. The Nobles used the same block in one of there high performance cars... I think our engines are awesome and have been tuned in other application with high whp...

The thing with our car is the ECU and that is one of the reasons people get a lot of CEL when tunning.. But now you can get the tuner...
Also those darn precat and pvc valves.. Mazda error not the engine...

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honestly, I want to have a project car with my son. I have a mazda and when he is about 3 or 4 I wanted to take it apart and do stuff with it... I really don't care what the heck we do with it. It's a project car. A car to be a one and only that my son and I worked on. Not a street car. I think we have a great engine with great abilities. A few people are using it as a daily driver with 8psi. Either using a supercharger or turbo... What I'm doing is just trying to get idea's...

One of the things I ran into was our wheelbase. All the RWD or AWD that use our BLOCK engine wheelbase is 107.4" across 3 other ford platforms...

While our car wheelbase is 105.3"

the other thing was to maybe find another vehicle frame work that uses the 107.4 wheelbase then i might just have to extend the front which will give more room for working with when modding the car but I can get it to be RWD a lot easier...

The thing I don't know is if I can use one of there transmissions and then get a 2.2" shorter drive shaft...

Well there is a lot other things to think about.. but right now i'm trying to see if there is one working for our engine with the same wheel base. Then need to find out if it will work in our cars.. If I can do that I just saved myself a lot of money.. or if our car would be able to got with minor modifications in a car with a 107.4" wheel base car that has a stronger frame that uses our engine....

Again, these are all theory... Nothing totally figure out.
I just wish more people like, dude that would be awesome. you should go here for more information...

Why do it? Because I can.

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I'm researching this and I research what everyone tell's me. I'm 100 percent able to do this on my own and I always welcome everyone's idea and help. I'm fullly open to any suggestions and anythoughts that might be helpful if i do go ahead with the plans. The day i lose my intersted i will post it in this forum.

If I was to do this project I would do it in steps

1. Mod exsisting engine and learn how to tune engine properly with a single turbo setup. Learn everything about the engine because I'm going to be turning it 90degrees

2. Gut out the entire car completely ( I want to learn every inch about the car.

3. Do the RWD system and make the chassy stiffer.

5. Install the engine and test it before I finish putting it all back together.

4. Work the inside of the car and install roll bars and upgrade the inside the way I want (only gonna be a 2 seater now so might make it a coupe)
Yes, I can cut, weld, and bend...

5. Body kit, full effects, and paint job.

My son and I will have a lot of fun on this. This is for me to spend time with my boy while he grows up. So once I start I will be in no hurry. I tell you one thing. When it's all said and done. My son and I would have a great car that we know everything about and have spent great time with eachother. Then it's on to have fun....

Hopefully I can have a 3.0L Twincharging Mazda 6 V6 RWD Coupe with a 6 speed transmission and 800+hp...

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Yea the jag did you a ATX but i'm thinking more a long the lines that we can see how they did there eninge mounts and how the engine was placed in the car. Might help in the design of the way the engine will be.

Not only that since the car is a RWD might also be something to look at.
http://www.autointel...2/jaguar214.htm[/URL]
New Car Review: 2004 Jaguar S-Type 3.0

I still run into the samething. The issues seems like it's gonig to be at connecting everything to the transmission that will be used.

I'm just tying to look at how many ways I can go with this. I'm loving the idea more and more..


Wondering if we can get the dimensions of the transmission for the mazdaspeed to see what else is there that might fit. that way we dont have the AWD tranny in there. Fully RWD.

So... I'm looking at this right now
jag engine design to see how it was mounted and how the frame is holding it in. Also, the rear setup for the RWD.

Mazdaspeed AWD setup and tranny.

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No problem... The tranny I use will be a big debate for a while... One... i don't fully know how much space is there for I can narrow down one that would be perfect for it. Right now I want to look at the size of the AWD on the speed6.

now the jag rearend is smaller then ours by 2.1" I'm not sure about the lincoln. Do you have the year that you are talking about for the lincoln? i'm looking at the wheelbase information and rear track size...

If I can find all the information i need about all the cars then it will be a little easier to narrow down what needs to be done.... Making the project a little easier...

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Any picture would be a great help.. Surfing for that stuff is hard... lol...
If anyone can help out.. I need pictures of 3 cars.

Mazda 6, MS6, and the jag s-type :)
The better the detail of each section on the bottom would be great... Then we can compare and see what we can make from it...
If someone can figure out the what size tranny will be able to fit on the 6 would be awesome. Want to look at what trannies are out there. I heard a 5 speed is more recommended for more HP... ???

Justin, If you are able to take those pictures of the Jag let me know. I'm think of everything I might want pictures of... Like how the engine is mounted compaired to ours. Things like that.

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Posted on 6crew by me...
Looks like some of my good friends(welder) in el paso want to get in on the build... So it will be my friends and there kids and my son and I. I have a friend who father is a master tech for acura/honda, gonna see if he wants to get in on the build... The more people brainstorming the less issues I hope. I will also be posting everything here as much as I can. For now we have to continue our brainstorming because now this is going to happen.. When? When I get out of Iraq and buy me a daily driver since right now my car is a daily driver. I want a truck...

I don't think it will ever stop being a mazda 6, that is for sure. The engine and the body of the car will always be a mazda...

Some food for thought and any help on this, as always will be greatly appreciated...

Yea the jag did use a ATX but i'm thinking more a long the lines that we can see how they did there eninge mounts and how the engine was placed in the car. Might help in the design of the way the engine will be.

Not only that since the car is a RWD might also be something to look at.
http://www.autointel...2/jaguar214.htm
New Car Review: 2004 Jaguar S-Type 3.0

I still run into the samething. The issues seems like it's gonig to be at connecting everything to the transmission that will be used.

I'm just tying to look at how many ways I can go with this. I'm loving the idea more and more..


Wondering if we can get the dimensions of the transmission for the mazdaspeed to see what else is there that might fit. that way we dont have the AWD tranny in there. Fully RWD tranny.

So... I'm looking at this right now
jag engine design to see how it was mounted and how the frame is holding it in. Also, the rear setup for the RWD.

Mazdaspeed AWD setup and tranny.

So... I'm looking at this right now
jag engine design to see how it was mounted and how the frame is holding it in. Also, the rear setup for the RWD.

Mazdaspeed AWD setup and tranny. See attached pic...

Any details on the 2 cars and specs would be great. So far I was only able to find the attached pic for the Mazdaspeed...

**Edit...
Found that Jaguar did make a manual with the 3.0 with RWD
http://www.cars.com/jaguar/s-type/20...A0&mode=search

The wheelbase is longer then ours 114.5
The Rear track is 60.7 which is about 2" shorter then ours.

So our engine has been used as a RWD... hmmm... Damn need to get the specs of the jaguar and see how the engine is mounted and how their RWD system is setup...
Will continue to dig further....

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things i'm looking into...
turning the engine 90 degrees is not going to be to hard. I have the jaguar stype and lincoln ls to see how it was setup in there car and maybe even use there engine mount.

for the tranny the jaguar using a getrag 221. i don't want to use the transmission.. Not good for putting up the hp. I'm thinking of the tremec T5 but i'm still working on that. Still need to get dimensions on what will fit there first. a getrag 233 would be awesome and last forever!!! lol.. anyways it's open to options..

For the front i'm just gonna disconnect it from the tranny... and keep it that way...

For the suspension and rwd i'm thinking of using the MS6 setup.

That is where I am at now..
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I have to look into the musting I know they use the tremec tranny a lot.

Yea with the supra I would never have to worry about the tranny just everything else lol... Though I think it will cost $$$ to find a used one. Also the GTR-Skyliner uses it...

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If I can find information like this for our tranny, and the T56, T5, TR6060 would be great....
Turbosupras Technical - Getrag V160 Transmission


MTX all the way. The 221 getrag used in the jag from year 2000–2002 is a 5 speed manual RWD. Though I won't use the Tranny is horrible for more hp... I'm just gonna use the car for reference on how they held the engine and tranny. I would love to put in a getrag 233 would be awesome but then I have to change the gearbox and adaptive plate because it's a 6speed that is used in the toyota TT supra.

What tranny do we have? I want to look up specs... If I can use the one we have now in the 6 then I don't have to worry about getting adaptive plates so it can fit a diff. tranny.

Edited by fullyarmed101, 31 August 2010 - 01:20 PM.

[Terry Haines]

Mustang V6 engine with a Tremec 6 speed RWD trans..

[rac74]

What I planned on doing (which I have now on hold due to time and finances): Wait for the the 11' Mustang to come out and you can have yourself a 300BHP V6 with a 6 speed that bolts up from the factory. No need to worry about adaptor plates, clutch/flywheel, etc...Keep it factory. When things break they can be easily and cheaply replaced plus you have the Mustang aftermarket for performance parts.

On the rear, I'd advise using the MS6 rear since the suspension geometry, etc.. is all set-up. Diff and axles can be upgraded as needed.

I'd advise (from personal experience) doing it this way to save yourself major time in design and construction.

Edited by rac74, 31 August 2010 - 01:29 PM.

[fullyarmed101]

rac74, on 31 August 2010 - 01:27 PM, said:

What I planned on doing (which I have now on hold due to time and finances): Wait for the the 11' Mustang to come out and you can have yourself a 300BHP V6 with a 6 speed that bolts up from the factory. No need to worry about adaptor plates, clutch/flywheel, etc...Keep it factory. When things break they can be easily and cheaply replaced plus you have the Mustang aftermarket for performance parts. On the rear, I'd advise using the MS6 rear since the suspension geometry, etc.. is all set-up. Diff and axles can be upgraded as needed. I'd advise (from personal experience) doing it this way to save yourself major time in design and construction.

I was hoping to keep the same engine though. I know a few people used the T5 tranny before. I also believe our engine can take a lot of abuse and would like to be different. I'm was planning to use the MS6 rear. I also know it's won't be that hard to turn our eninge 90 degrees. We do have enough room. The only main concern is the MTX part of it. I just think that changing the engine and tranny will require a lot more work. <BR><BR>Would the MTX the Nobles use work for my application? Any one knows what they used?

Edited by fullyarmed101, 31 August 2010 - 01:51 PM.

[rac74]

fullyarmed101, on 31 August 2010 - 01:41 PM, said:

I was hoping to keep the same engine though. I know a few people used the T5 tranny before. I also believe our engine can take a lot of abuse and would like to be different. I'm was planning to use the MS6 rear. I also know it's won't be that hard to turn our eninge 90 degrees. We do have enough room. The only main concern is the MTX part of it. I just think that changing the engine and tranny will require a lot more work.

If you want to do it this way then go with a good gearbox and get a T56. I'd get the ford bell housing and use the Cobra's clutch and then send your flywheel out (for the bolt pattern) to the same manufacturer (say Centerforce just as an example) along with the requisite dimensions and have them work up a flywheel for you. I did this initially but with the new 3.5L Duratec.

I had originally thought of using the Jag x-fer box like everyone else but its TQ capacity is low. If you want a transverse layout (AWD) I'd just go buy a MS6 since those units have taken increased TQ..

[fullyarmed101]

rac74, on 31 August 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

If you want to do it this way then go with a good gearbox and get a T56. I'd get the ford bell housing and use the Cobra's clutch and then send your flywheel out (for the bolt pattern) to the same manufacturer (say Centerforce just as an example) along with the requisite dimensions and have them work up a flywheel for you. I did this initially but with the new 3.5L Duratec.

I had originally thought of using the Jag x-fer box like everyone else but its TQ capacity is low. If you want a transverse layout (AWD) I'd just go buy a MS6 since those units have taken increased TQ..

I will take that into consideration. I want to do RWD. Kind of a show car and not for the streets. Right now it's going to be a project for my son and i to do. If I may ask about how much did it cost you to to that for the 3.5L?

[rac74]

fullyarmed101, on 31 August 2010 - 02:11 PM, said:

I will take that into consideration. I want to do RWD. Kind of a show car and not for the streets. Right now it's going to be a project for my son and i to do. If I may ask about how much did it cost you to to that for the 3.5L?

I got mine for $800 through car-part.

[fullyarmed101]

rac74, on 31 August 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

I got mine for $800 through car-part.

I meant the cost for the gearbox, T56, ford bell housing, cobra clutch, and sending the flywheel out for the bolt pattern...

[fullyarmed101]

<P>This is my first car project every. I have lots of questions and need all the help that I can get. I really appreciate all the help.. </P>

Edited by fullyarmed101, 31 August 2010 - 03:17 PM.

[rac74]

Check your PMs...

[fullyarmed101]

Great update...

I spoke with David Godfrey. He also has a lot of information out there on cutom pistons and rods.
http://www.key-ideas...2402Update.html

http://www.astroperf...01c10010b9f09fb
$2200 for a new tranny...

$376 for a new Cobra R Bellhousing
Clutch is unknown but once I get the cost for it I will let you guys know.

Right now all the prices are new but I will shop around for used or parts and the yard to see what I can get them for.

So it looks like the Tranny setup will be about $6000 - $7000 all brand new... Might be able to bring it down to $4000-$5000 with used parts, for the flywheel you can't do much about that. Hopefully with the other contact the price will go down and people intrested in it.

Other forums that I posted on:
http://www.6crew.com...ead.php?t=15794
http://forum.mazda6c...conversion.html
http://www.contour.o...ion...&p=858979

[Speedmaster]

Lincoln LS had a 3.0L with a 5-speed manual RWD model.....as no adapter plates needed....straight bolt in...........hard to find .......

[mrspindlelegs]

Speedmaster, on 02 September 2010 - 06:27 AM, said:

Lincoln LS had a 3.0L with a 5-speed manual RWD model.....as no adapter plates needed....straight bolt in...........hard to find .......

There are several of these transmissions listed on car-part.com right now.

[fullyarmed101]

Speedmaster, on 02 September 2010 - 06:27 AM, said:

Lincoln LS had a 3.0L with a 5-speed manual RWD model.....as no adapter plates needed....straight bolt in...........hard to find .......

The getrag 221 tranny which sucks... If you try to put power to it, you will damage the tranny... The jaguar s-type also had it. They both had it from 2000-20003.

[fullyarmed101]

BELLHOUSING:

I attached the pitures of the adapter plate with Bell housing that will work with the T-5. The adapter plate will also work with the TKO but you need the Cobra R type bell housing.

David Godfrey "The bell housing in the picture is 86-93 5.0 Mustang. The bell housing was changed in 94 because ford went to a Tremec T45 trans. To run a TKO600 5 speed with a .8 5th gear you will need a Cobra R bell housing from Summit racing or such. Last time I bought one the cost was $189. This bell housing has the correct bolt pattern for the Tremec 600. If you want to use a Tremec with a T5 1.062 x 10 spline clutch you can use a standard T5 bell housing modified as shown in the picture. The drop in Tremec 600 has a nasty .62 5th gear so it's no good."

CLUTCH:
David Godfreey said "It uses a Ford 2.3 turbo clutch. I have a new spare alloy pressure plate and disc assembly I can sell."

"The clutch disc you see was part of the clutch CF built for me and Rick Byrnes. The assembly is rated for 500 ft lbs torque which is way more than most motors will put out. Everything about the clutch is custom. KC at Center Force has been supplying Rick with clutches for his LSR cars but never was comfortable with a forged steel pressure plate as what's used on an OEM clutch cover. The billet aluminum pressure plate is much better for high RPM. I made the aluminum pressure plate, cent it to KC who finish machined the spring pivots to provide the proper setup clamp load. It also has stronger anti-rotation strap anchors. There is a steel heat shield riveted to the pressure plate that can be resurfaced or replaced. The clutch assy is noticeably lighter than anyone's 2.3T pressure plate. The disc has a sprung hub to lessen shock to the trans. The clutch is the real deal and the best available for this fitment. I have a lot of historical detail about this clutch but you get the drift."

FLYWHEEL:
David Godfrey said "Scope this out and see if there is interest on getting flywheels made and I'll get pricing for a couple different sources. The flywheel pictured is made from 4130 steel and weighs in at 12 lbs."

SETUP:
David Godfrey "The T5 in my car was custom built for Rick back when he worked for Ford and his land speed racing effort were sponsored by Borg Warner. Back then BW custom built a R5 for Rick that included a .9 5th gear. It's a neat transmission and I love the 4th to 5th gear change. I could sell you the transmission but I want to go through it first as it's getting a bit noisy, hence the move to the TKO 600. Need to sell it before it breaks. I could include a new DGRB spec Center Force lightweight clutch assy, MGW billet shifter, bell housing, and the T5 freshened up as a package deal for $2300."

What do you guys think about this? Sounds good?

i also emailed the http://www.driveshaftshop.com/ they have an upgraded drive shaft for the Mazdaspeed 6 and asked them if they can do a custom setup and about what is the ball park figure of the cost.

DRIVE SHAFT & REAR DIFF:
ok.. i got replies back from driveshaftshop

Frank said:
"im sure we can make something, im not sure of the flange size on the back of the the Mazda as we only make rear axles for the car. i would figure it to be a 2 piece shaft and to be able to handle 1000hp an estimate would be about 1100.00 to make a 2 piece. this being said i would say almost for sure the rear diff would not be able to handle the power and you may want to think about a different rear for the car as well....."

Then I asked him what he would recommend for the the rear diff and he said
" if you get something in there i can make the axles and shaft work, we dont fabricate so i can only suggest maybe a ford 8.8 diff and we could go from there"

So of course I looked up ford 8.8 diff and i found this... AWESOME...
Nathan's LS1 Miata

Best to use for the future power upgrade is the 31-spline 8.8"
Ford 8.8 Ring Gear & Pinion Sets; Differential Parts & Application Information - Drivetrain.com

Attached Files

•  bell housing.JPG   44.86K   1 downloads
•  bell housing adapter.JPG   42.42K   2 downloads
•  bell housing side.JPG   47.76K   1 downloads
•  clutch 1.JPG   85.75K   2 downloads
•  clutch 2.JPG   93.83K   3 downloads
•  clutch 3.JPG   92.67K   3 downloads
•  clutch 4.JPG   89.29K   3 downloads
•  flywheel front.JPG   25.86K   3 downloads
•  flywheel rear.JPG   25.61K   5 downloads
•  T5 bell housing adapter template.JPG   26.96K   4 downloads

[rac74]

On the 8.8" rear, try SVTperformance forums or any other mustang related and look at picking up a 2003-2004 Cobra IRS. It has the aluminum housing (the only one that I'm aware of off the top of my head but I haven't looked into it in a while). You might ask DG where he sourced his as I remember he had used one with an aluminum housing. The most abundant are the cast iron units in T-birds.

[fullyarmed101]

rac74, on 03 September 2010 - 07:04 AM, said:

On the 8.8" rear, try SVTperformance forums or any other mustang related and look at picking up a 2003-2004 Cobra IRS. It has the aluminum housing (the only one that I'm aware of off the top of my head but I haven't looked into it in a while). You might ask DG where he sourced his as I remember he had used one with an aluminum housing. The most abundant are the cast iron units in T-birds.

Thanks for the information.. I'm going to have to look that up...

HELP!!<BR itxtvisited="1">Frank said "being it has not been done its hard for me to determine how to proceed, you see the outer c.v. will need the be larger in diameter. we can take the hub on the car a broach them but there will be a limit as to how we can go. if there is not enough material you may have to make a spindle to hold the bigger hub. a normal cost would be about 1800 to 2000"<BR itxtvisited="1"><BR itxtvisited="1">Does anyone have any infromation that might be able to help with this?