38 replies to this topic

[BuckeyeSVT]

mrspindlelegs, on 30 August 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

From what I've seen on CEG and NECO forums, it looks like BuckeyeSVT has hit a "2nd Highest" horsepower output and probably "3rd Highest" torque as documented by a dynosheet. The only person I know that has exceeded BuckeyeSVT's HP and TQ output is "timeless420" who hit 236 HP and 219 TQ. The dyno sheet can be found in message #5 of this thread:

http://www.newcougar...yours-here.html

Fairly complete info on timeless420's build is listed in that thread.

rb26deet32 hit 222 HP and 220 TQ.

There may be a very few others that have done as good in one of two categories but I have not digged deeply enough to find them.

Timeless420 build sheet...

Quote

Fully balanced 2004 Escape Shortblock * Ross Racing Pistons @ 11.5:1 Compression * PnP Oval Port heads matched to split port manifolds * Clevite main and rod bearings * 24# Accel Injectors * MSDS headers/y-pipe (Coated by Fireball Coatings in Shelbourne, Ontario) * CTA Motorsports 2.5 inch Catback exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow SS Muffler * Performance Designs Underdrive PS and ALT Pullies * Performance Fords Optimized LIM * Performance Fords UIM Alignment Bushings * Optimized 65mm Throttle Body * CTA Motorsports Intake Pipe * Pro-M Bullet 75mm MAF * K&N RU-1785 Filter * 3inch Dryer Hose Running From Front Bumper To Air Filter * Magnacore Competition 8.5mm Wires * Motocraft AGSF22FM plugs * SCT XCal Tuning by Steeda.ca

Ross racing pistons? That's hardly stock. Aside from camshafts my internals are all stock. Aside from bolt-on's, I'm pretty much stock...lol. Therefore, I spent alot less money than the others to get where I am..

I'll take #2, as I bet if all 3 of us were on the same dyno... The numbers may drastically change! I'm game for a challenger...lol.

-Dom

[BuckeyeSVT]

I'm ready to setup the Group Buy (if allowed on NECO, if not - Then here). The price for a group buy of 3 or more will be $650 for a full kit, that price is minus core (which I need the old set of cams to send out). I handle shipping to and from (and check every shipment to make sure there is no problems or damage before they leave). Turn around time is around 2 weeks. If I can get an interest check, I will ask to setup a group buy and get the ball rolling.

-Dom

[mrspindlelegs]

BuckeyeSVT, on 30 August 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

I'm ready to setup the Group Buy (if allowed on NECO, if not - Then here). The price for a group buy of 3 or more will be $650 for a full kit, that price is minus core (which I need the old set of cams to send out). I handle shipping to and from (and check every shipment to make sure there is no problems or damage before they leave). Turn around time is around 2 weeks. If I can get an interest check, I will ask to setup a group buy and get the ball rolling.

-Dom

I'm 100% in on this one.

[3LSVTTOUR]

His build was epic for its time and he used to have his own website documenting it all but unfortunately is has vanished.


I too may be in on the GB... wonder what this would do for the turbo app.

or even the FULL 3L with ST220 UIM.

Edited by 3LSVTTOUR, 31 August 2011 - 12:35 AM.

[Terry Haines]

..on that build spec I assume it also had aftermarket forged conrods with the custom pistons and 11:1 Cr?

[mrspindlelegs]

Terry Haines, on 31 August 2011 - 01:35 PM, said:

..on that build spec I assume it also had aftermarket forged conrods with the custom pistons and 11:1 Cr?

If you mean timeless420's build, it looks like he went with stock connecting rods based on this post:

http://www.contour.o...true#Post906854

He got it up and running in August, 2005 and sold the car in May, 2006. He said none of his mods caused problems but he just got tired of all the other Ford headaches with the car. I don't know who bought the car from him so I can't say if the motor died from a spun bearing or other bottom end failure afterwards.

[BuckeyeSVT]

One off motors are just that, show pieces. My engine has been in my car for over 5 years and I now daily drive it when decent outside. I've been running the new cams for 2 months and went to CougarFest with them without a retune and then came back and had the tune properly dialed in. A 19HP gain and 9.4 TQ gain is nothing to sneeze at... Especially when I see people spend CRAZY money on things that get them 5... Lol.

-Dom

[rac74]

I personaly wouldn't touch the bottom end on a daily driver as there are too many things to go wrong if not done correctly. Hard parts in general I'm leary about changing now.

If I did it over again, I'd have a cheap Zetec daily and an SVT track car with a built motor (cams, high CR pistons, a tuned manifold and a tuned set of SS headers) and a nice suspension and enjoy that car for what it is, a track car. There's too much crap to worry about with a highly modified daily driver and it's not worth the hassle.

[Terry Haines]

When owners state the static compression ratio it means very little. Without the cam info (Intake valve closes at XX Degrees After Bottom Dead Center) it means nothing.I'm sure we all know that the later the intake valve closes the lower the compression ratio is.For example,if you fit a hot cam with late close you can reduce performance etc....Never see anyone do the math to establish the dynamic compression ratio...

[rac74]

Terry Haines, on 01 September 2011 - 06:43 AM, said:

...Never see anyone do the math to establish the dynamic compression ratio...

That requires trigonometry and not everyone has a good math background.....However, I'd think any cam naufacturer would be able to do this for a customer provided they can get them the necesssary info. (stroke, rod length, chamber volume, etc...) if they were but to merely inquire about it. Seems dumb not to ask when it comes to an investment like this.

[Terry Haines]

It's not that complex! All you are doing is reducing the stroke depending on where the intake valve is fully cosed..ANY good engine builder will know from his cam data and based on that, choose the CR of the pistons etc..cams first,pistons next..A fully prepped engine should be fully measured as it is built!!..

[Terry Haines]

http://www.kb-silvol...php?action=comp



and/or...


http://www.rbracing-.../comprAdvHD.htm

[BuckeyeSVT]

Two interested people so far? Wow... Thought these would be alot more popular...

-Dom

[CrewChiefPro]

spridget, on 25 August 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

Sounds peppy! 4500-6500 really picked up without any low rpm TQ loss. Nice work.

A 3L with SVT cams finally finds its nuts at 6500-7500. It takes so much longer to get there with less TQ. Why is it impossible to convince others that SVT cams are slower on the street?

Depends on the application. Real World testing has proven that the SVT Cams are far better than the 3.0 cams in my son's and my Turbo CSVTs. I had the SVT cams installed but decided to listen to others about swapping to stock 3.0 cams. What a mistake. The SVT Cams are far superior in our cars. More midrange and far more RPM. My Turbo with SVT Cams was an absolute animal. Now it is still quick, but doesn't scare you like it used to.

When my son did his 3.0 Turbo we made sure he put his SVT Cams in place. Now he has the superior SVT in the family. When I pull the motor to put a different clutch in I will be swapping back to SVT Cams. Fuel economy numbers are still the same, around 27 mpg on the highway.

[Terry Haines]

...just some info on valves,cams etc...


The Mach Index is a mathematical expression of the speed, in this case, of the inlet velocity, relative to the speed of sound. Chuck Yeager was the first man to "break" the sound barrier, but this is not something we wish to do in flow through our inlet valves. Volumetric efficiency will start to fall off sharply past six tenths the speed of sound (Mach .6) so the engine designer will not want to exceed this .6 mach value at peak rpms. In as much as the speed of sound is temperature dependent and the exhaust valve has different requirements, these calculations do not apply to the exhaust valve. Your cylinder head is where all the power resides and you should choose your cylinder head carefully and not be seduced by some polished billet piece that has no science beyond the highly polished finish. You may not reach Mach 1 on two wheels but your exhaust port can make sonic "barks" and your inlet port should be more than half way there.
Inlet Valve Closing Versus Mach Index
At high Mach Index Values the cylinder pressure may be well below inlet pressure at Bottom Dead Center. In this case, delaying the inlet valve closing allows more flow into the cylinder up to the time when the inlet and cylinder pressures reach equality. Thus, the higher the value of the Mach Index, the later the inlet valve should be closed to increase, or maintain volumetric efficiency. As you design your motor you may be involved in Mach Index values in the .4 to .75 range. Keep in mind that to prevent drops in volumetric efficiency you need to keep the camshafts in the picture.

Exhaust Valve Considerations
The exhaust valve lives in a different world, a much hotter world, a world of sonic waves and lower than sonic gas flow. When the exhaust valve opens there are much higher pressures involved than was the case on the inlet event. The speed of sound is temperature dependent so don't use the above calculator for exhaust valve sizing. Your exhaust valve flow capacity should be in the range of 65 to 80 percent of the inlet valve capacity. Increasing the exhaust valve capacity beyond this will not give performance increases and will in fact kill your power. As the inlet valve goes up, , the exhaust size has to follow.



"Lovell Factor" Inlet Valve Mean Gas Speed
Understanding some of the math involving an engine's breathing, or pumping capacity, is vital to predicting the ultimate potential of that engine. A well understood measure is a simple formula to calculate "mean gas speed of the inlet valves". This is called the "Lovell Factor".
For example, to show the progress in modern racing engines, first take a look at an earlier Formula1 engine, the Cosworth DFV four valve V8: With a bore of 90 mm, a stroke of 58.94 mm, 36.5 mm inlet valves, and an rpm limit of 11,000 RPM, these specifications yield a "Lovell Factor" of 65.7 meters /second. This was the final variant of the venerable Cosworth V8.
The modern V10's, and now the mandated V8's in Formula 1, have RPMs in the 19,000 to 20,000 RPM range, and the "Lovell Factors" are in the regions around 70 to 77 meters per second, mean inlet valve gas speeds. This is necessary to produce the insane amounts of power they produce. Pneumatic valves, variable length inlet trumpets, exotic coatings and lightweight components are required to keep the engines alive and to make this much power, which is around 300 horsepower per liter.
Compare this with your engine. You may see that your inlet mean gas speeds are going very high in some cases which could indicate your valve area is insufficient for the speeds.

[spridget]

CrewChiefPro, on 06 September 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

Depends on the application. Real World testing has proven that the SVT Cams are far better than the 3.0 cams in my son's and my Turbo CSVTs. I had the SVT cams installed but decided to listen to others about swapping to stock 3.0 cams. What a mistake. The SVT Cams are far superior in our cars. More midrange and far more RPM. My Turbo with SVT Cams was an absolute animal. Now it is still quick, but doesn't scare you like it used to.

When my son did his 3.0 Turbo we made sure he put his SVT Cams in place. Now he has the superior SVT in the family. When I pull the motor to put a different clutch in I will be swapping back to SVT Cams. Fuel economy numbers are still the same, around 27 mpg on the highway.

I should have been more specific; I was referring only to N/A applications. SVT cams are slower in the real world in N/A 3Ls. Either way, the staggered intake timing of SVT cams only makes sense when IMRC is retained. They are the best alternative to oval port cams in F/I applications, but custom F/I cams would be better.

[rac74]

Which 3L cams did he/you have in the turbo motor?

[Slow Cat]

BuckeyeSVT, on 02 September 2011 - 07:12 AM, said:

Two interested people so far? Wow... Thought these would be alot more popular...

-Dom

You should throw this up on NECO if possible. I'm sure you'd pick up a few there... I would love to get in on this, but doubt the wife would approve it right now.

[BuckeyeSVT]

Trust me, I already have quite a few orders. I will post up a Group Buy when I get enough in some Cougars so I can post dyno data from multiple configurations first.

-Dom