Mtown10 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Hello everybody, I just replaced the head gasket on my 98 Zetec with VCT. It had poor compression in 1 and 2 cylinders, and the gasket showed that. Don't ask me how, but my intake cam broke in half. Luckily, I have a 96 Zetec out back with the cams in it, so I stole the intake cam out of it (same part number on cam), and put it in my 98. I got it all back together, and started it up, and it has a very bad idle. It sort of chugs along, but if you give it gas, it sounds fine. I read another thread on here "No idle after new timing belt" and BuckeyeSVT mentioned that if you disconnect the cam position sensor and the idle goes back to normal, the timing is off. That is the case here. If I plug the cam position sensor in, it starts to chug along and it sounds terrible. If i unplug it, it's nice and smooth like it should be. Could I use the car like it is, but just keep the sensor unplugged? Or will that cause more damage? I'm working on getting a Ford CD for it in the meantime. Any help would be greatly appreciated here guys and gals, or if anyone could contact BuckeyeSVT, he seems to know what's up with VCT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Anyone know where to get the CD? Is there a certain one that I need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Well for starters, you need to address the timing issue. The procedure is unique for the VCT Zetec. Do not continue to drive with the Cam Position Sensor - fix the timing. As far as a Service Manual on CD, I do not know where to locate one other than an appeal to the group here. You do not require this CD, in order to set your cam timing correctly, btw. The symptom you descrtibe is classic with the VCT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Thanks for the feedback mondeoman, is there a trusted procedure out there for VCT setup? It seems to me that everywhere you go the procedure has subtle differences, which may or may not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I would check from dealer part numbers that the Zetec 96 cam is the exact same number as the broken one..Numbers on cams are usually a casting number and not the real part number... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Terry - these are not the same pn's. I verified that these cams (both intake and exhaust) change Ford pn# for each and every year of ZETEC, in the Contour. Of course the question that begs to be asked is this: is the intake cam profile the same between the '96 and the '98? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 With that being said, they certainly looked the same side by side, and if the casting number is the same for both, wouldn't that actually confirm that they are the same? The casting number being the same would make the part number irrelevant. The ends are different, but they still have the slots and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 One would think so....but don't assume. Ford changes their pn's for a number of reasons. Parts may or may-not be interchangeable. It is all about the cam lobes and to be able to visually identify a small change in lift/duration will not be seen to the naked eye. Ref. the following: http://www.fordcontour.org/topic/15342-99-20-zetec-timing-belt-issue/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Side by side 'eyeball' means little with cams. Only exact measurement will tell you. As an Ex Ford guy I can tell you that if the part #'s are not the same then the cams are not the same. Need a cam the same as the one that was damaged to get back to basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Well it looks like I'll be taking a trip to the junk yard then, I'm sure a new one would be an astronomical expense. Thanks for the feedback fellas, I appreciate the wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Well it looks like I'll be taking a trip to the junk yard then, I'm sure a new one would be an astronomical expense. Thanks for the feedback fellas, I appreciate the wisdom. Check your timing belt for proper cam timing first - all the articles I reference state that your symptoms are a case of the timing belt not adjusted correctly when dealing with the VCT. Locate the proper procedure for your VCT engine and follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Yeah that's the problem I'm running into, there are different versions out there everywhere it seems. The one that I followed seemed legit, but maybe I just need to try it again. Should the exhaust cam(the one with the VCT solenoid on it) move independently from the exhaust cam gear? When we had everything tightened down and the alignment slots still good, and #1 at TDC, we rotated the crank 720° and the intake cam moved along with the belt, but the exhaust cam stayed still while it's gear moved with the belt. After a little turning, the exhaust cam finally started spinning, but then the timing slots weren't aligned anymore like it said in the procedure that I read. Is that a bad thing, or is it designed to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What you maybe seeing is reference to TSB 99-25-4 which is a revised procedure due to the timing belt traveling/walking to the edge of the camshaft sprockets, see - http://en.allexperts.com/q/Lincoln-Mercury-Repair-820/99-CONTOUR-TIMING-BELT.htm This procedure refers to the original style timing belt tensioner, which has been replaced with a spring loaded tensioner. This procedure is correctly stated here - http://www.2carpros.com/questions/ford-contour-1999-ford-contour-timing--4 There is an excellent explanation of how the VCT operates, found on our FCO site - http://www.fordcontour.org/topic/15009-variable-camshaft-timing-part-numbers/ Any reference to a "crankshaft alignment pin" is NOT required, as your crankshaft pulley has the notch that aligns with the "tab" on the engine end cover. This is very well shown in the above 2carpros timing belt procedure, above. If you are able to pull DTC codes (MIL ON), and they are P1380, P1381, P1383 and/or P0340, let us know - there are a number of TSB's referencing these DTC's which involve the VCT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Wow thank you so much Mondeoman, all of this literature helps a lot!! I am going to take some measurements on those two cams sometime this week, then we'll find out how much junkyard searching I'll have to do. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 Just to follow up here, I have no idea how I did it, but it is running really well now. Originally I did the timing and it sounded like crap at idle. Then I did basically the same thing, and it all sounds good. Like I said, I don't know what happened, but it is back in action again after a long time off. Now I need to figure out why my radiator fans won't kick in on their own. Thanks for all of the help fellas, I appreciate it!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You hit the nail on the head! Perseverance as well as the old addage - measure twice, cut once (in my case it is measure three times!). EXCELLENT!!! Zetec cooling - here is a good reading - http://www.fordcontour.org/topic/14371-zetec-low-speed-cooling-fan-resistor-pn/ Also search on cooling fan and Aussie Ford posts. He has written an explanation, with his legendary pics, that sums up the issues as well as the dual fan upgrade for the earlier single fan Zetecs. Glad we were of assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Interesting read, but I went out on my car and put a meter across the two pins on the resistor, and it wasn't open, and the wiring looked good, so that can't be my problem. Just to confirm, the resistor is at the bottom of the fan shroud, on the driver side right? And the AC works, so the pressure switches must be good also. Really the only thing that I can think of is the wiring itself being junk. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spridget Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Trace the wiring from the fans to the power distribution box. The wires are heavier to handle the load. The fan shroud has a sub harness for the fans. Check the connectors are firmly seated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 I'll do that tonight, thanks for the advice spridget! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Interesting read, but I went out on my car and put a meter across the two pins on the resistor, and it wasn't open, and the wiring looked good, so that can't be my problem. Just to confirm, the resistor is at the bottom of the fan shroud, on the driver side right? And the AC works, so the pressure switches must be good also. Really the only thing that I can think of is the wiring itself being junk. Any thoughts? Correct you are on the location, lower left on the cooling fan shroud, when viewed from the drivers seat. Don't discount the relays in the fuse box - at minimum reseat these and look/test for fan operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Roger that Mondeoman, I plan on digging into the electrical tonight after work, and I will report later, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Update: I was kind of stumped with my radiator fans, the high and low speed came on if I took the plug off of the top coolant sensor, but they never seem to come on on their own, and my gauge was up around the "L" in normal. My dad had a great idea though. We knew the sensor worked with resistance, the higher the resistance, the cooler it was supposed to be. So, we disconnected the plug from the sensor, and hooked it up to a resistor with a low enough resistance that it kicked the fans in, and it worked! Tomorrow night I am going to try using a resistor with a very high resistance, to make sure the fans didn't kick in just because the plug was disconnected. My next question is how do I get my gauge to show a lower temperature? I truly believe it would've kept climbing until it was in the red. If I remember correctly, before I replaced the head gasket I ran it into the red, and the motor started to bog down, and the fans hadn't come on yet. Does the sensor that sends the signal to the gauge also communicate with the pcm, and make the engine bog down, even though it isn't hot enough to kick the fans in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 Anybody have any insight to this problem I am seeing? It seems like the fans aren't kicking in soon enough, and when the temp gauge gets into the red, the engine starts to bog down, like it thinks it is overheating. However, I have sort of figured out that it really isn't. I'm confused here fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondeoman Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 You are looking at two TOTALLY seperate temperature sensors. One is for the fans and the other is for the dash coolant temperature gauge. The resistance value of these temperature, as measured in ohms, varies greatly from one sensor to the next. I have measured, with a VOM, 4 examples of the fan temp sensor, right out of the box, at my local Napa store. ALL 4 had significantly different ohm readings at the same room temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtown10 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hmmm so the resistance readings between the two really won't be very similar? I think I might try swapping the sensor for the gauge out, at least that way it won't look like it's always ready to overheat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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