24 replies to this topic

[BuckeyeSVT]

Ok, where do I start. Since there is alot of interest in the newer 3.0L's and many discussions on the changes I guess it's best to bring forth pictures to those who are not very familiar with them as I am.

Starting off with the list of changes: Windage tray. As Terry was talking about earlier, there is a big difference in the lower windage tray and how it is bolted into the block. The tray now acts as a structural member due to it being bolted through the center holding the mains. This is quite interesting as they have made some big changes to the windage tray "scrapers" as well. Look below to see a detailed difference between a SVT engine (left) and a 05' 3.0 block (right).

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Since I made mention of a few things in Terry's forum I guess I'll outline as much as I have pictures to back up. Here is a shot of the newer pistons with valve reliefs. These newer engines are all 9.5:1 compression engines... They don't run too bad at all with that setup. ;)

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Now onto the cooling. Since the 04 models were redesgned for bigger car use ( Five Hundred, Freestyle...etc) they opened up the block for more cooling capacity. This allows more coolant to flow through the engine and promote better cooling. I know that everyone thinks it's a small deal, however it works great with an SVT radiator. Here's the difference in size for you to actually see... (SVT above, 05' 3L below).

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Now for the PCV system, I guess this is my favorite change on the engine. It works much better and is much simpler than the old system. The PCV is on the drivers side of the rear valve cover and has a rubber hose that comes out of it to the upper intake manifold. Much cleaner design, only 2 hoses (one front for fresh air and one in the rear for discharge to the UIM). Have a look, the center oil seperator is now blocked off... New valve covers also give more volume to the PCV system allowing more flow through the heads and less chance of picking up raw oil into the system.

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And the rest, well maybe I'll start another short post about it. Thank Adam98SVT for the PCV pics, those came from his new engine he will be enjoying here soon.

-Dom

[D's nuts]

The 04 taurus came with the new design right? Im thinking about getting a 04 motor and putting N0S on hte 3l now and run it till it blows lol. Does the 04 motor have a different injector size than the 01? Cause I was wondering if its going to change my tune by putting in the newer motor.

[spridget]

The windage try has been like since '01 and the valve reliefs since '99. I've been through several '99-'03 engines, and the windage tray and pistons look the same as your pics. The part number on the windage is the same except for the last letter... B versus the earlier A.

Cooling and PCV are the certainly different.


Pics are of an '01 block... notice the part number on the windage tray. The coffe table was a '99 Sable, the pistons have valve reliefs.

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[Terry Haines]

....all good stuff Dom and guys.FWIW Dom and I 'chat' now & then......and between us have a few 'other' ideas for more HP etc to the later 3.0's....some are just 'trick',others would be outright 'wild'.....I sure more engine changes/add ons will be coming in the next few months or so...eh Dom!!! ;)

[BuckeyeSVT]

spridget, on Sep 12 2007, 01:55 AM, said:

The windage try has been like since '01 and the valve reliefs since '99. I've been through several '99-'03 engines, and the windage tray and pistons look the same as your pics. The part number on the windage is the same except for the last letter... B versus the earlier A.

Cooling and PCV are the certainly different.
Pics are of an '01 block... notice the part number on the windage tray. The coffe table was a '99 Sable, the pistons have valve reliefs.

I was more or less charting all the differences between an SVT 2.5L, and a 04+ 3.0L. I wasn't really trying to chart specific changes in the 3L's since 99. However, there are small engineering changes on the newer 3L's like deeper valve reliefs (VVT use only I'm sure but all pistons are the same in either motor - Even replacements). Not really much to talk about as it's all pointless on a normal cylinder head - However when you put all the changes together vs. the earlier 3L's the sum of the combination leads to a better choice overall.

-Dom

[BuckeyeSVT]

Terry Haines, on Sep 12 2007, 06:36 AM, said:

....all good stuff Dom and guys.FWIW Dom and I 'chat' now & then......and between us have a few 'other' ideas for more HP etc to the later 3.0's....some are just 'trick',others would be outright 'wild'.....I sure more engine changes/add ons will be coming in the next few months or so...eh Dom!!! ;)

The future looks interesting, I know my dyno guys are going to love me when that time comes.

-Dom

[Terry Haines]

....on the 'other mod' for the 3.0 that we spoke of the other day...The more I look at it and sketch the layout and 'crunch' some numbers the more I'm sure it will work....Yes, it would all be down to the calibration and 'tune' on the extra 'bits' but I think I'm inclined to fab up a part for you to 'try' on a future 3.0!! Wild ideas eh Dom!!! ;)

[BuckeyeSVT]

I have the perfect car in mind for that idea... Whenever you are ready Terry.

-Dom

[Terry Haines]

;)

[Adam98SVT]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about but Doms got my car right now you can test all you want on that

[Terry Haines]

....there is still a lot of CAD work,m/c and fab to do on this...not counting a 'package study'(do we even have the 'real estate' area to fit fit it...along with other 'bits' that will have to attach to it...)...not a 5 min job,as I'm sure Dom will agree!I think it will be possible,if all goes well,to have this as a diy retrofit'....maybe... ;)

[D's nuts]

internal or external mod?

[Terry Haines]

....later! ;)

[D's nuts]

damn the suspense! This always kills me lol

[Adam98SVT]

Well I wasn't able to get much info from talking to Dom either. Very interested PM me if you want a sweet deal on CAD work.

Back on topic, for the scientists out there, with talking to Dom, Ill be using coated MSDS headers so within the next month you'll get to see numbers on a stock Stage 3 Motorworks '04 Sable 3.0 with headers and dual exhaust. Should be interesting and damn loud enough

Adam

[D's nuts]

Is that true duals? I almost fabed up a exhaust off this bmw on my car. I cant remember what modle my friend said it was but it was new. THey put a borla. But it was stainless true duals and had a H pipe from the factory. It was really nice.

[BuckeyeSVT]

Correct, true duals.

-Dom

[D's nuts]

Yeah I cannt wait to see the numbers

[Terry Haines]

....Well I wasn't able to get much info from talking to Dom either.......PM me if you want a sweet deal on CAD work....


....be patient,these things do not happen in a few days....when the time is right and the product is proved out all will know..on the CAD/M-C shop work,HMS has 50% share in a CNC m/c shop....with all the CAD etc.What machines do you have access to?Any gear cutters??

[Adam98SVT]

Terry Haines, on Sep 13 2007, 05:23 AM, said:

....Well I wasn't able to get much info from talking to Dom either.......PM me if you want a sweet deal on CAD work....
....be patient,these things do not happen in a few days....when the time is right and the product is proved out all will know..on the CAD/M-C shop work,HMS has 50% share in a CNC m/c shop....with all the CAD etc.What machines do you have access to?Any gear cutters??

No I dont have access to machine tools. I can produce 3D solid models of parts and produce shop drawings thats about it.

Adam