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Obummer visits Afghanistan


Aussie Ford

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I have to say, that in my opinion, Reagan was the last great president we had.

He only did one thing that was good for Americans/unreasonable search and seizure laws.He killed the Federal solar program and removed solar panels from the Whitehouse roof. Part of the reason we could be in this so-called energy crisis right now.The supply is there just the prices has changed,and what does that say for oil companies making record profits? B)

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He killed the Federal solar program and removed solar panels from the Whitehouse roof. Part of the reason we could be in this so-called energy crisis right now. B)

 

OK I gotta tell you a solar story: I built a place for green / earth friendly products to be displayed by vendors and contractors. One display was a house (almost full size) and on the roof we had different materials ie, 3 tab, standing seam metal, and slate. On the 3 tab sides we had a display of a solar water heater panel, a solar energy panel, and some photovotaic shingles that lay right into the 3 tab roofing. On the slate part we had similar photovotaic panels that lay into the slate roofing, and finally on the standing seam metal roof some photovotaic strips that fasten to the flat areas of the metal. I was really impressed by the way each of them looked and as I was doing a roof on my house at the time I thought about adding some solar. Why not? I went to my suppliers web site and there was a calculator that showed what was needed to gain a certain out put so I punched in the numbers and the cost came to $50,000.00 to equal 35kw. After a job meeting I asked the vendor about this and he said that he knew the payback was not reasonable since one will not generally use that much power in a lifetime. I asked why someone would even install it then, and his answer was guilt. His latest cilent had done it because they had just bought a new Expedition and felt bad about doing that. Then there are some people that will just do it because...... but the bottom line is solar is not, at this stage, a real viable option for energy. Perhapas in another decade or so the technology will be there. Not now! Regan didn't kill solar, technology killed solar for the time being, but the research is still going on. In fact there is a company in Bend, Or that just came out with a new way to make power using solar that has promises of being more cost effective. They did this on a federal grant, so it is still being funded and is not really dead.

 

AF

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..... but the bottom line is solar is not, at this stage, a real viable option for energy. Perhapas in another decade or so the technology will be there.

 

Totally agree on this.......it is not economically fesible for the average citizen to convert "now" to alternative energies. A article I just recently read shows to convert a vehicle to LNG would cost (depending on vehicle) somewheres in the facinity of $5000.00 to $15,000.00. A "practial" electric car with "infrastructure" for re-charging is, in reality, many years down

the road. I researched converting my home to a wind turbine to the tune of $38,000.00 and that would not even put me "off" the grid. Maybe even the idea of replacing all "new construction" homes with alternative heating and cooling systems might help drive the cost of the systems down due to volume pricing....either way expand oil resources now to help curb the price per barrel and at the same time invest heavily into alternatives.

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You guys are a little off when talking about solar power. It's a supplemental alternative to getting it from the city. It's like a shallow well, and you're hooked up to city water as well. Say you go out and spend $5k, that's enough to put out 180 watts all day, and you're not even home. So included in that cost is you pannels, batteries, and switch gear to put that energy you're not using back on the grid, making your meter spin backwards. In the case of spending $50k and getting 35kWs, that would pay for itself in two years. You'd be suppling energy for your whole neighborhood, and getting payed. Only on sunny days though, so paypack would be longer than two years if it were here in Sota, more like 5, but if this were Zona....

Why not make a water fueled generator, that's one thing I'm doing right now. I had an extra weed trimmer, 27cc, and powered it up with a 12v Car battery that uses an alernator to recharge the battery. Still some things to work out. The system is some what bulky and need more refinement.

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You guys are a little off when talking about solar power. It's a supplemental alternative to getting it from the city. It's like a shallow well, and you're hooked up to city water as well. Say you go out and spend $5k, that's enough to put out 180 watts all day, and you're not even home. So included in that cost is you pannels, batteries, and switch gear to put that energy you're not using back on the grid, making your meter spin backwards. In the case of spending $50k and getting 35kWs, that would pay for itself in two years. You'd be suppling energy for your whole neighborhood, and getting payed. Only on sunny days though, so paypack would be longer than two years if it were here in Sota, more like 5, but if this were Zona....

Why not make a water fueled generator, that's one thing I'm doing right now. I had an extra weed trimmer, 27cc, and powered it up with a 12v Car battery that uses an alernator to recharge the battery. Still some things to work out. The system is some what bulky and need more refinement.

If you want PM me and I might be able to get you investors or federal grants to fix the bulky ,ugly system you have.Also make alot of money to boot! B)

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Well, how do you guys feel about his removing American flags from his plane? And then replacing it with his logo, which has been descibed as the Islamic moon rising over the American landscape. Hmmm.... interesting.

 

Do we really want someone who won't recite the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the National Anthem, or even place his hand over his heart during the Star Spangled Banner as President? What about refusing to salute the American flag or showing any patriotism at all?

 

Even though the candidates are not up to our standards, it seems to me that it is an obvious choice.

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You guys are a little off when talking about solar power. It's a supplemental alternative to getting it from the city. It's like a shallow well, and you're hooked up to city water as well. Say you go out and spend $5k, that's enough to put out 180 watts all day, and you're not even home. So included in that cost is you pannels, batteries, and switch gear to put that energy you're not using back on the grid, making your meter spin backwards. In the case of spending $50k and getting 35kWs, that would pay for itself in two years. You'd be suppling energy for your whole neighborhood, and getting payed. Only on sunny days though, so paypack would be longer than two years if it were here in Sota, more like 5, but if this were Zona....

Why not make a water fueled generator, that's one thing I'm doing right now. I had an extra weed trimmer, 27cc, and powered it up with a 12v Car battery that uses an alernator to recharge the battery. Still some things to work out. The system is some what bulky and need more refinement.

 

Ok lets get into a bit of perspective here:

1) Say you go out and spend $5k, that's enough to put out 180 watts all day, and you're not even home. This is equal to the usable power from one 20amp 120v circuit. So now that you have spent $5k you can power your refrigerator. Now I don't know about you but mine is on all the time even when I'm not home so nothing to sell back there.

 

2)So included in that cost is you pannels, batteries, and switch gear to put that energy you're not using back on the grid, making your meter spin backwards. Most power companies are mandated to buy back any power a customer generates in excess of their usage. So yes you could sell it easily.

 

3) In the case of spending $50k and getting 35kWs, that would pay for itself in two years. You'd be suppling energy for your whole neighborhood, and getting payed. Only on sunny days though, so paypack would be longer than two years if it were here in Sota, more like 5, but if this were Zona.... In that Energy Resource Center I built, I also installed a fuel cell that produced 10kw which I dumped back into one of my building lighting panels. It used methanol which had to be 99.97% pure. That came in 345 gal totes and just the test alone that had to be done once the tote was filled was $1k. The fuel was another $6/gal. The cost of the fuel cell was $60k. It was a Beta unit so it was down most of the time. Once it ran for 11 days and set a record.... LOL Bottom line was not worth the cost. Now as we discussed that $5k to get your refrigerator running lets look at what 35kw / 3500w will really do. A 20 amp circuit has 180w of usable power @ 80% load which according to NECA is the max for that circuit. Divide that 3500 / 2 = 17.5-200w ckts. How many circuits do you have in you house? I have more than that which is why one can not actually run everything if you have a small generator for when the power is out. I'm of course talking a 220v, single phase, 200 amp supply here. Which is typical for a house. You have nothing to sell back nor to pass trough on to a neighbor.... You can't even power your whole house yet. Even if you live in Zona ...... so where did you get your presumptions from? The math doesn't work out.

Things that need their own circuit in a typical house:

Refrigerator

Microwave

Dishwasher

Hot water heater (2 ckts)

Range (2 ckts)

Dryer (2 ckts)

One small appliance counter ckt for kitchen

One bathroom ckt

Lighting ckt (2)

Furnace

General use ckts (2)

Here we've used 16 ckts that leaves 1 for the garage and outside power. No 220v in your shop here, and no AC.

 

Many folks do not realize how much power they actually use or how it is distributed in their homes. Most of the time a person is using at least 4ckts continually when just running their computer and talking here.

 

This is why all this stuff sounds good but doesn't pencil out. That is not to say some if planned properly can not be a helper source, but even then you want to do something that is cost effective and reasonable.

 

4) Why not make a water fueled generator, that's one thing I'm doing right now. I had an extra weed trimmer, 27cc, and powered it up with a 12v Car battery that uses an alernator to recharge the battery. Still some things to work out. The system is some what bulky and need more refinement. Go for it, but there are small hydro generation units on the market now that can be installed in a year round stream with proper flow rate and provide power for remote areas. Hydro power is very reasonable.

 

AF

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Maybe he did... and maybe he didn't.

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afghanistan.asp

 

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackoba...afghanistan.htm

 

 

 

Usually we get these emails about or from people we don't know. This time however I actually know the folks in this chain of sendings so I can believe what this American Soldier who is protecting out freedom has to say.

AF

 

I am sending this on to you, like my friend Ron Smootz, I beleave we should know who

that man is! "Smokey"

 

 

--- On Sun, 7/27/08, Ronald Smootz wrote:

 

> From: Ronald Smootz

> Subject: From our friend who is serving in Afghanistan

> To: "Smootz Ron"

> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:25 AM

> got this from a friend in Idaho..............

>

> Hi all FYI--for what freedom is worth.

>

> Tiffany and Jeff Porter are our friends who live in Virginia .

>

> (Below is from Tiffany)

>

> I don't know each of your

> personal political convictions, and apologize if anyone

> finds this offensive. I thought it was important enough to

> share. This is Jeff's first hand view of Senator Obama.

>

>

> Tiffany

>

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Well, how do you guys feel about his removing American flags from his plane? And then replacing it with his logo, which has been descibed as the Islamic moon rising over the American landscape. Hmmm.... interesting.

 

Do we really want someone who won't recite the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the National Anthem, or even place his hand over his heart during the Star Spangled Banner as President? What about refusing to salute the American flag or showing any patriotism at all?

 

Even though the candidates are not up to our standards, it seems to me that it is an obvious choice.

 

This post is too damm logical!

AF

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.......just be sure to ' kick the tires' of any plane,car etc you travel in...... :stupid: ....or just don't bother and go with faith based air pressure!!!! :yahoo: ....not every day you get to hear such dumb comments from those of Washington DC eh!!!

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I followed insain husain's advice and am now getting 54 mpg in my Tour...... Try it, just inflate your tires to 107 lbs and you too can get good mileage....... what a moroon!!!!!

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....not every day you get to hear such dumb comments from those of Washington DC eh!!!

 

LOL ....... I can tell you don't listen to what comes out of Washington very much.... best comedy show on the planet! should be in the Guinness Book for most clowns assembled in one place.... :lol:

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Agreed on public tv so it is aired to everyone free. Right now you can get it on a cable channel. House of Rep's, the Senate, and the Supreme Court all ought to be viewed by as many people as possible ALL of the time. Ya gotta keep an eye on the bastards for sure!

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......as the senator looked under the hood with a blank gaze and said.......

 

 

 

 

''.......Where is the dipstick??......

 

 

.......the answer came.....

 

 

 

 

 

'...........Look in the MIRROR!!!!!!!

LOL+1 :lol:

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...on wind and solar energy.

I was under the impression that smaller wind generators were used to charge banks of batteries...then the power was converted to higher voltage so you have power even when there is no wind.Solar, be it electric or steam works much the same. On steam solar I think they are developing a way to store the heat from daytime sun heat/ steam to operate during darkness...or that's at least the plan.Australia has a 'hot rocks' project that injects water to the hot rocks a few miles down to make steam for generators etc...

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You are correct Terry that is how those work well except the wind and steam gens, they can be used as AC in real time. Solar is DC, and does go to storage batteries and I suppose the others could also. You just need a source to charge them. The systems have inverters in them. Even that fuel cell that I installed had a set of batteries in the loop so while it normally produced 3.5KW it could for a short time put out 10 KW. Solar being DC can directly charge batteries then the power goes our via an inverter to change it to usable AC (sorta).

 

That's why a small hydro generator or even geothermal is a better source since you can get continual generation like you do on the grid. There is an company now that has developed a portable nuke generator that will power 45K homes. I just heard about that the other day. But really that is steam generation too.

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Agreed on public tv so it is aired to everyone free. Right now you can get it on a cable channel. House of Rep's, the Senate, and the Supreme Court all ought to be viewed by as many people as possible ALL of the time. Ya gotta keep an eye on the bastards for sure!

 

 

How about "Big Brother: The White House Edition (Who's Watching Who)"

 

:lol:

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Yeh, it is off topic. Should be under the sub-forum "head up your ass". fudge Kerry. Fucking traitor.

handle a joke?

And as far as your theory on kW usage. I don't think your range, dishwasher, garbage disposal,washer/drier, A/C, furnace, all of the lights in your house, the TV, computer and all of your kitchen appliances will be working at 100% at the same time in a residential home. no way your panel will do that much. no way the transformer will handle 6 homes in your neighborhood doing that. on average you use 50 amps on both hots, and some goes to the neuter, (6 amps at most if motors are going.) sure your refer may run while you're gone, but not all day, ifso then your refer is in need of repair. on my last bill it wasn't much over 11kWh with the A/C on all of the time. as for hydro power... waste of time, St. Anthony plant is 9MW with 3 turbines...

Edited by dub
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The normal house load is designed at 220v & 200 amps. Most of the time all things are not running but the system is set up so that it could be. The transformers at the pole are designed for it. Perhpas not in your area but out here in the west systems are designed not to fail.

 

My house panel is 42 breakers and fed off a 220v / 200 amp main breaker. It will do most anything. You are correct that usually everything is not running at the same time which is why you can actually install a sub panel say for a shop that is equal to the main panel. According to NECA. and KWh is different than KW's. That just says you used 11,000 watt hours of energy, billed at so much per hr = bill. Not 11KW's. That's about 367kwh's per day / 15.3kwh's per hour. So since you have some times when you are using less and times when using more then it is very reasonable to say that you were at times using more than 35kw at a time every day for a while. Now when you were using that 35kw if you had a 20kw power source you'd have a brown or black out on your hands real quick.

 

This is not theory it is based on fact, you don't know much about power distribution and usage do you?

 

There are small portable hydro generators that are designed to be put into a flowing stream and produce about the power of a normal supply for one house. There are various sizes. Hydro power in Orygun produces hundreds of MW's is clean and with the updated ladders are even more fish friendly. They are the very best source of generation around. Next come nuke power.

 

AF

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