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Which Forged Connecting Rods for Turbo 3.0?


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i'd say that livinSVT's car is the closest thing right now. he runs the forged rods/pistons, noble oil squirters, accusump oil accumilator, and an upgraded adc kit (if i do recall right) that'd be the car to buy, it was just up for sale too. :( too bad i'm outta work.

 

something you guys gotta know is that even joey will say, he builds turbo kits. he's no pro engine builder, but he can usually do it fine. Tom (warmonger) is the tuning brain of teh whole operation, but he was in iraq i believe or somewhere overseas so he wasnt't around to do any tunes so joey was doing all of it. tom is back in the states and he's the guy to get your car tuned by. so if the tune was the problem, joey might have something to do with that. but i really doubt it. sounds like a typical spun rod bearing to me, and we all have heard from terry that PM rods are junk!

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..maybe I should add that when you have the piston cooling jets( oil squirters) as in the Noble etc,it's good policy to use an oil pump from a 3.0 that has VVT,these have a higher capacity/volume and help counter the increase in oil volume pumped by the squirters...The aim of the jets is to cool the underside of the piston crowns to help reduce overall piston crown temps and take that added piston crown heat away via the oil.Too high a crown temp will give det on a turbo engine at boost....

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i'd say that livinSVT's car is the closest thing right now. he runs the forged rods/pistons, noble oil squirters, accusump oil accumilator, and an upgraded adc kit (if i do recall right) that'd be the car to buy, it was just up for sale too. :( too bad i'm outta work.

 

something you guys gotta know is that even joey will say, he builds turbo kits. he's no pro engine builder, but he can usually do it fine. Tom (warmonger) is the tuning brain of teh whole operation, but he was in iraq i believe or somewhere overseas so he wasnt't around to do any tunes so joey was doing all of it. tom is back in the states and he's the guy to get your car tuned by. so if the tune was the problem, joey might have something to do with that. but i really doubt it. sounds like a typical spun rod bearing to me, and we all have heard from terry that PM rods are junk!

 

The engine didnt spin a rod, it broke the piston.

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If you use a Noble built 3.0 then it's best to use the turbo kits from turbohoses.com and the calibration/tune that matches that set up.Contact Hoover at t/hoses,he is the calibration expert for all Noble turbo setups,VERY smart engineer.With a very good suspension set up you can get that power down on the road.

Where can I foind prices on these Noble engines?What do you think the cost would be?

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. tom is back in the states and he's the guy to get your car tuned by.

 

Something I will say out of experience: Even though NPG can get you a good base tune, it will never be the best tune you can get. Why? Because it requires numerous pulls to get the car tuned to the best performance. Add timing in certain rpm ranges, take away timing (in certain rpm ranges), add fuel, take away fuel. Tune for drivability. Unless you're interested in sending multiple data logs and dyno pulls to NPG, you'll never get the best out of your engine. Period.

 

I had first hand experience of ADC mail order tunes. I know that NPG offers better service than ADC. That's great. However, I will never suggest a mail order tune to anyone. Get it done by a dyno shop. I take my car to Ohio not only for work by S3M by Dom, but for tuning by the tuner Dom has tune his engine builds.

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To add to that....

 

mail order tunes will get you by, but it's never going to be as good as a dyno tune. With a mail order tune, you'll data log, email the data back to your tuner, wait for a new tune, data log, email, wait.... etc, etc. I may take weeks or months to get it right. A dyno tune will be perfect after just a few hours. Every setup is different, every engine is different. Dyno tuning is customized to your car, not a generalized estimation like a mail order tune.

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..to have 3>4 blow engines one after the other is NOT normal.I suspect a basic build up error in all these engines.Give us more history of each build up,specs etc and I'm sure I can get to the bottom of it.Spent many years doing failed engine inspect at Ford R & D...lets work this out before it costs more $$$ in time and effort!!!

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..to have 3>4 blow engines one after the other is NOT normal.I suspect a basic build up error in all these engines.Give us more history of each build up,specs etc and I'm sure I can get to the bottom of it.Spent many years doing failed engine inspect at Ford R & D...lets work this out before it costs more $$$ in time and effort!!!

 

 

I am all for that. I already have one of your transmissions. The car is so fun to drive that I want to make sure this engine is right.

 

What does it cost to have a motor built?

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Something I will say out of experience: Even though NPG can get you a good base tune, it will never be the best tune you can get. Why? Because it requires numerous pulls to get the car tuned to the best performance. Add timing in certain rpm ranges, take away timing (in certain rpm ranges), add fuel, take away fuel. Tune for drivability. Unless you're interested in sending multiple data logs and dyno pulls to NPG, you'll never get the best out of your engine. Period.

 

I had first hand experience of ADC mail order tunes. I know that NPG offers better service than ADC. That's great. However, I will never suggest a mail order tune to anyone. Get it done by a dyno shop. I take my car to Ohio not only for work by S3M by Dom, but for tuning by the tuner Dom has tune his engine builds.

 

All mail order tunes are baseline tunes. They are not dialed in tunes for your specific engine. It doesn't matter if you send ten datalogs, it's still a baseline. All baseline tunes are meant to do is get the engine started and running well enough to drive to a real tuner. Expecting anything more than that out of a mail order tune is exactly the reason so many people have drivability issues and engines grenading. It's very simple to understand, yet so many people fail to grasp the concept. Or you have "operations" like NPG claiming it's a final tune. That's a detrimental mistake that I would never tell any customer ever.

 

 

To add to that....

 

mail order tunes will get you by, but it's never going to be as good as a dyno tune. With a mail order tune, you'll data log, email the data back to your tuner, wait for a new tune, data log, email, wait.... etc, etc. I may take weeks or months to get it right. A dyno tune will be perfect after just a few hours. Every setup is different, every engine is different. Dyno tuning is customized to your car, not a generalized estimation like a mail order tune.

 

Yup. Couldn't explain it better - Been saying this for eons.

 

 

..to have 3>4 blow engines one after the other is NOT normal.I suspect a basic build up error in all these engines.Give us more history of each build up,specs etc and I'm sure I can get to the bottom of it.Spent many years doing failed engine inspect at Ford R & D...lets work this out before it costs more $$$ in time and effort!!!

 

Lol, after I heard stories of engines blowing up and Joey's own confession that he didn't understand how to properly use a boost controller (he owns the company and sells turbo kits but has no understanding of how a boost controller may work) is beyond me. That's like saying I build and sell 3.0L engines but have no idea how the cam timing is supposed to be set. :blink: Getting the parts for the engine will be the most expensive part (i.e. rods and pistons) however assembly will cost much less. I've done a few custom engines over the years (mostly V8's and GM V6's though).. However they are not that hard to do correctly. If you can't build one out of 3 that doesn't fail... Might as well quit while you're ahead. I've never had an engine fail yet... (custom built).

 

-Dom

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To add to that....

 

mail order tunes will get you by, but it's never going to be as good as a dyno tune. With a mail order tune, you'll data log, email the data back to your tuner, wait for a new tune, data log, email, wait.... etc, etc. I may take weeks or months to get it right. A dyno tune will be perfect after just a few hours. Every setup is different, every engine is different. Dyno tuning is customized to your car, not a generalized estimation like a mail order tune.

Thanks Spridget!

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first off dom, joey doesn't sell boost controllers with his kits. you get a kit it will have a 7.5 LB wastegate spring, you cannot adjust the boost unless you get your own controller.

 

lastly, Tom (warmonger) knows his stuff. a mail order tune is not the way to go. that's why you have to go to them, like when they come to michigan for the CEG yearly meet. then you can tune on the street and on the dyno. lets not forget that tom had a stock 3L with a homemade turbo kit pushing 325 WHP at 10 psi for many years as a daily driver. Ray bought his car, and is still driving it. he has a new engine now, because he ran through a puddle and bent a rod and "noticed" some loss in power.

 

he drove the car for weeks if i do recall correctly with a bent rod! i'd say that tom knows his stuff. i understand that dom is "the man" here and many of you guys get tunes from him. that's great. and i mail order tune is only used to get you to the shop for a real tune! but don't get down on the NPG guys for sending mail order tunes like their customers ask for.

 

and i'm sorry, if you have a 360+ whp SVT running stock PM rods and hyperutectic pistons, you know that's a ticking time bomb. i was mad at myself for blowing up my car in michigan in 07 but that's what i get after running 32 bottles of a 100 shot on a basically stock 2.5L, making 280+ WHP~!

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first off dom, joey doesn't sell boost controllers with his kits. you get a kit it will have a 7.5 LB wastegate spring, you cannot adjust the boost unless you get your own controller.

 

lastly, Tom (warmonger) knows his stuff. a mail order tune is not the way to go. that's why you have to go to them, like when they come to michigan for the CEG yearly meet. then you can tune on the street and on the dyno. lets not forget that tom had a stock 3L with a homemade turbo kit pushing 325 WHP at 10 psi for many years as a daily driver. Ray bought his car, and is still driving it. he has a new engine now, because he ran through a puddle and bent a rod and "noticed" some loss in power.

 

he drove the car for weeks if i do recall correctly with a bent rod! i'd say that tom knows his stuff. i understand that dom is "the man" here and many of you guys get tunes from him. that's great. and i mail order tune is only used to get you to the shop for a real tune! but don't get down on the NPG guys for sending mail order tunes like their customers ask for.

 

and i'm sorry, if you have a 360+ whp SVT running stock PM rods and hyperutectic pistons, you know that's a ticking time bomb. i was mad at myself for blowing up my car in michigan in 07 but that's what i get after running 32 bottles of a 100 shot on a basically stock 2.5L, making 280+ WHP~!

 

We didnt put the engine together, the guy he bought the car from made those decisions.

 

Lets put a list together:

Engine 1-Joey blew up on Dyno

Engine 2-Lasted about 5000 miles, horrible oil pressure, shattered a piston

Engine 3-Spun a rod not even a mile after it was installed

 

There might be another engine in there, but Im not sure

 

My car is making 260+WHP, and has about 9000 miles on it, it has seen 12 PSI, and still runs perfect.

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yeah. that's cool. diss joey all you want, but thank him for your turbo kit. you (and your dad, w/e) suck joey's ass on CEG and come right over here and talk trash. if you dont' like him, don't buy stuff from him! and your dad has a race car right? well then why doesn't he build his own engine? just a thought. don't let him keep building you engines if you think he's doing something wrong. just my .02

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It is too much to ask for ~280-300 hp out of a stock full 3L? Dropping 1200 plus on a set of rods is a bit much to me for this platform...

 

My avatar is a NA 420hp 3L jag engine built in England......price tag 30K US.........If you want to play ....you'll have to pay! B)

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yeah. that's cool. diss joey all you want, but thank him for your turbo kit. you (and your dad, w/e) suck joey's ass on CEG and come right over here and talk trash. if you dont' like him, don't buy stuff from him! and your dad has a race car right? well then why doesn't he build his own engine? just a thought. don't let him keep building you engines if you think he's doing something wrong. just my .02

 

I have never bought anything from Joey, nor has my Dad. And I dont suck Joey's ass on CEG either.

 

I thought I made this clear before but I guess not, the guy my Dad bought the car from, had Joey put the 3L-Turbo in. The first one he blew up on the dyno. The second one he had problems with at first, then he "fixed" them.

 

The engine that was installed just now, was from Joey due to an agreement between my Dad and the guy he bought it from.

 

He has yet to decide what he is going to do with the next motor. Racing season is just starting up, and that is his first priority.

 

My Dad doesnt claim to know how to biuld engines. He is well enough known in the world of drag racing, so he knows the people who know how to build engines. He had a 565 C.I. BB that was in the car for about 4 years, built by Stinnet Motors (Regarded as one of the best Sportsman Engine builders in Drag Racing), it blew up at the end of last year. Now he has a 585 C.I. BB making about 1100 horsepower.

 

You have a street car right? then why dont you build your own engines? Your logic is flawed.

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yeah. that's cool. diss joey all you want, but thank him for your turbo kit. you (and your dad, w/e) suck joey's ass on CEG and come right over here and talk trash. if you dont' like him, don't buy stuff from him! and your dad has a race car right? well then why doesn't he build his own engine? just a thought. don't let him keep building you engines if you think he's doing something wrong. just my .02

 

 

 

Ummmm.... Say what?

 

WTF, when did I ever say anything about Joey on CEG that was negative? Joey never built my engine, just tossed it in. The only problem I had with Joey was misrepresenting the year of the car he advertised. He said up and down that it was a 2000 model year, when in fact, he knew it was a 1999. He said it had the 2000 fuel lines, which was good enough for him to say it was a 2000. He is a bit different....

 

I don't build my own engines because I don't have to. I choose not to reinvent the wheel when there are so many engine builders that are my customers. I can build a motor, it is just not worth my time.

 

I make the world's greatest drag racing software program, that is where I spend my time and effort. I let specialists build my engines and transmissions.

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....but thank him for your turbo kit. ..

 

...your history is off mate!!..NPG did not do the first V6 turbo kit for this car..Get your history straight,it was by Streetflight and the owner at that time made a visit to me here at HMS in Mi to chat over some of the details .It was NPG that took over/ used the Streetflight design later on when Streetflight packed up..I'll dig out some old info if I still have it..

 

 

..and the card reads..

 

 

Street Flight

 

Gary Schkade, CEO

 

545 S Robson Ste 2

Mesa ,AZ

85210

 

Gary and his guys did the original turbo kit OK!!!

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terry you know im not a retard. hes the only guy that CURRENTLY FUGGING OFFERS A TURBO KIT. streetflight turbo kits are no more! the turbo kit on said car (thread starter, whatever) is a NPG kit.

 

 

and if you are running a 1100 HP race engine, you should know that your stock rods and pistons are not going to hold up under the power your making on that 3L-T. simple as that.

 

and to whoever asked why i don't build my own engines.... i do. i rebuilt my last 3L. i just didnt have the TIME to do it the last time i did a 3L, because i had already sold my other car (95 SHO) and i had to be back on the road. so i found a really clean engine that i hardly had to touch.

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terry you know im not a retard.

 

Never said you were so calm down.My point is the initial turbo kit design for the Contour was by Street Flight, NPG did a copy of it,they did not do the initial design of it.An yes ,other turbo kits are out there for the 3.0 V6,what do you think the Noble is..and that does not use an NPG kit in either twin or single turbo set up.

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  • 11 years later...

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