gone postal Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Ohh well, I suppose that's alot less than the 1.21 jigawatts needed by the Delorean And people say I don't have a sense of humor? -Dom This setup doesn't need a flux capacitor either! (Though a Mr. Fusion does have possibilities!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Thats 3 hp according to google. Save that by ditching your chain and all that. You can start talking about continuously variable valve timing. You could have 4 electric motors even. You can definitely get automation technology to keep up with 20k rpm. You dont need solenoids though if you have 4 motors/cams and still get continuously VVT on both sides for whatever thats worth. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rac74 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Thats 3 hp according to google. Save that by ditching your chain and all that. You can start talking about continuously variable valve timing. You could have 4 electric motors even. You can definitely get automation technology to keep up with 20k rpm. You dont need solenoids though if you have 4 motors/cams and still get continuously VVT on both sides for whatever thats worth. Adam Simplify it a bit. One motor per bank or 1 motor for both banks with a chain drive. Incorporate a Valvetronic or VTEC like system and you have a great valve actuation system without taking power from the crankshaft. However, if the motor(s) fails, good chance the whole engine is toast. A bit of a liability for a manufacturer, but not for a race car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone postal Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Simplify it a bit. One motor per bank or 1 motor for both banks with a chain drive. Incorporate a Valvetronic or VTEC like system and you have a great valve actuation system without taking power from the crankshaft. However, if the motor(s) fails, good chance the whole engine is toast. A bit of a liability for a manufacturer, but not for a race car. My concern with a setup like this would be the VFD. VFDs require clean power, and aren't the most resilient systems. An engine compartment is a VERY noisy and hostile place, electronically speaking. VFD's also have a lag time between call for adjust and adjust. You would have to go with a drive by wire system instead of a mechanical throttle linkage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Simplify it a bit. One motor per bank or 1 motor for both banks with a chain drive. Incorporate a Valvetronic or VTEC like system and you have a great valve actuation system without taking power from the crankshaft. However, if the motor(s) fails, good chance the whole engine is toast. A bit of a liability for a manufacturer, but not for a race car. Using cams & chains still you could replace timing from the crank to 1 electric motor w/similar chain drive setup...but no VVT there. Or run 1 motor for both banks intake and exhaust separately using 2 motors and 2 chains/belts (constant VVT available here), or ideally direct drive 4 motor setup so you can eliminate the waste of all those moving parts. You could solve a lot of potential (interference-engine) problems with proper automation I think. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 My concern with a setup like this would be the VFD. VFDs require clean power, and aren't the most resilient systems. An engine compartment is a VERY noisy and hostile place, electronically speaking. VFD's also have a lag time between call for adjust and adjust. You would have to go with a drive by wire system instead of a mechanical throttle linkage. Certainly drive by wire easily fits in here. Clean power can be had even from current car-audio technology with caps. Isolate the communication from the controller to the drive using optical technology requiring only a clean power source....already covered... Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone postal Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 The problem isn't the communications. The problem is getting the kind of clean power INTO the VFD you need to generate the kind of precision control that a setup like that would require. That's where the noise factor come in in the engine compartment. VFD's are not the most forgiving devices in the worlds when it comes to power and noise. The setup would also be heavy. Precision drive motors aren't light. I think solenoid control would be a better solution. Timing the valves would be easier, it would be completely solid state up until you got to the valve actuators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 (edited) Yes 12 individual actuators would be sweet. (on a v6) IDK if the tech is there for an actuator that can replicate the precision of a cam lobe at that speed. Adam Edited September 22, 2007 by Adam98SVT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Yes 12 individual actuators would be sweet. (on a v6) IDK if the tech is there for an actuator that can replicate the precision of a cam lobe at that speed. Adam Umm, double that original figure. Remember the Duratec is a 24 valve engine - therefore 24 actuators. 2 motors could do it, but speed matching of the crank and such would be a major concern. Would the electric motor be able to keep up with the engine accleration? I'm sure it could be done, however the motor design sounds too much water pump-ish and not really techie (like the solenoids). Plus the motors would take up space we don't have where the solenoids could be compact enough to fit in the factory valve covers. -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantansvt Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Wow I am way late to the thread but here we go anyway. That car runs great and i could not believ it worked until he started it when i got to the shop. Yeah thanks for trying to catch me on fire the first time This mod is awesome and now just makes our cars that much more different. Now to try it on the 2.5??? I will lend my car as the donor. lol Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Thanks Billy, I'm sure there are plenty of other projects that I can try to set you on fire with...lol I have valve covers coming out of my wazoo, pick a couple out of the rack and install them. We have enough COP units to spare 6 and I'll show you how to wire it. Deal? -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone postal Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Umm, double that original figure. Remember the Duratec is a 24 valve engine - therefore 24 actuators. 2 motors could do it, but speed matching of the crank and such would be a major concern. Would the electric motor be able to keep up with the engine accleration? I'm sure it could be done, however the motor design sounds too much water pump-ish and not really techie (like the solenoids). Plus the motors would take up space we don't have where the solenoids could be compact enough to fit in the factory valve covers. -Dom It COULD be done with motors, but it would be a bulky, kludgy setup more fit for installation in a pickup (plenty of engine compartment space) than the 'tour. I can think of a couple motors I work with that could handle the RPM requirements, ramp up and velocity adjustments, but they weigh 15+ lbs each minus the controller and tach setup. The other issue with them would be the cost (about $2500 for the motors and controllers. Pac Sci builds great equipment, but it ain't cheap) I wish I could remember who did the solenoid actuated valvetrain, because it was a beautiful (if unreliable) setup. For some reason Bosch comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantansvt Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Yeah..... deal.... but the fun part is wiring it.lol You are just so goood at that. well if we do that we will just piss them off even more so that might be fun. Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Mercedes is debuting their KDI EVT (electronic valvetrain without camshafts; supercharged and direct-injected) in the 2008 C-Class. So, it looks like the future is really a reality afterall. However, I guess they were supposed to release it this year - And never did. Here's a good article from SAE about camless engines... Siemens Camless Technology Keep in mind, this is a 42V system we are talking about - Which no one has switched to yet. -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone postal Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Mercedes is debuting their KDI EVT (electronic valvetrain without camshafts; supercharged and direct-injected) in the 2008 C-Class. So, it looks like the future is really a reality afterall. However, I guess they were supposed to release it this year - And never did. Here's a good article from SAE about camless engines... Siemens Camless Technology Keep in mind, this is a 42V system we are talking about - Which no one has switched to yet. -Dom Thankss, Dom. I knew it was either siemens or bosch, couldn't remember which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Umm, double that original figure. Remember the Duratec is a 24 valve engine - therefore 24 actuators. 2 motors could do it, but speed matching of the crank and such would be a major concern. Would the electric motor be able to keep up with the engine accleration? I'm sure it could be done, however the motor design sounds too much water pump-ish and not really techie (like the solenoids). Plus the motors would take up space we don't have where the solenoids could be compact enough to fit in the factory valve covers. -Dom I figured 6 cylinders 1 actuator operating both intake or exhaust valves at the same time on each side for 12 actuators. Unless you want to go split port and control each valve independently lol... Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 I'm not sure they have dual valve solenoids... maybe? -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 If you can get that Seimens solenoid to open 1 valve like that I dont see why two valves cant be connected. Bad ass. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray2 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 So let me get this strait. this harness will be plug and play with a completely stock 2.5 as long as you change the head covers? Yes. In essence that is completely correct. -Dom OK. So what motor do I want to pull valve covers from to do this mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Any 2000-2003 Taurus or Sable with the 3.0L (4 valve). -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Hopefully I will get the connectors ordered up soon from a manufacturer who I can get them reasonably from and start getting these out into the wild. -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spridget Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Any 2000-2003 Taurus or Sable with the 3.0L (4 valve). -Dom Correction... 2001-2003 2000 3L Duratecs do not have the rear mounted water pump driven by the cam shaft. The LH valve cover will not fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Thanks spridget, forgot about that little oversight (the odd front waterpump 3.0L's) in 2000. -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 ...as a quick 'look see' the cop units 'may work' on the stoc 2.5 cam covers..OK the hold down lug could be an issue as is the IMRC box in the way but apart from that it is a 'maybe'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDsContour Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) Edited September 23, 2007 by JEDsContour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now