mikeyboy Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 hey terry how is the mazda 6 3.0L different then the LS or jag 3.0s? are they more similar in regards to the internals of the taurus or the jag/LS? /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 wow isn't that thing gorgeous. what is the difference between the base model mazda 6 and the upgraded version. just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Well if it's not using some of the For/Jag parts I'd be most suprised...need to dig up some specs/dimensions etc....lets call it a cousin for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastCougar Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 "Rear" view needs Horizontal flipping ... now that looks right ;) src='http://www.fastcougar.com/misc/Mazda6EngineRearProper.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 It's using most of the Jag parts... If you want I'll illustrate the 2.5L and 3.0L AJ-6 engine in the X-Type... Exactly the same (except the upper intake manifold). -Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Ok... Here's the breakdowns - Check it out: Seeing here the only real difference is the upper intake manifold (No secondaries) but two intake manifold "tuning valves". Keep in mind that the X-Type uses drive by wire and VVT which is also illustrated here. />-Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 well that is interesting for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 That intake is almost a carbon copy of the LS 3.0....which is going into 3 Contours/Courgars re HMS Inc...also has the 'flap valve ' for plenum volume.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckPuck Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 What and how are theses Intake tuning valves used? Could we benefit from them... perhaps I may want one of theses intakes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 They vairy the volume of the plenum depending on rpm etc...Northstar engine has had them for years!!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckPuck Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 i assume this function is to smooth out torque curve across a broader rpm range (high and low), similar to what the secondaries do on our engines.... /> is this a complete ecu control function or can it be actuated using some kind of "home built" circuitry by sensing rpm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warmonger Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Logically speaking, it should provide similar benefits to what the secondaries did. Howver, it seems better in that it allows maximum port area in the intake runners because they are oval port and not split and it promotes better mixing of the fuel and air for the same reason; all the while keeping air velocity high over a broad rpm range. It almost seems better all the way around, but I would need better pictures to the exact air path. It is one thing to keep the air velocity high over a broad range, but it is another thing to tune the length of the runner to the desired rpm range. The old style IMRC kept velocity high by using two different intake runner diameters, but it also used two different manifold runner lengths that "tuned" the intake to two separate areas. This new system appears to only have one path length. Still a compromise in some respects, but may be the best option so far. What are your comments on these thoughts? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warmonger Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Originally posted by PuckPuck@Jan 29 2003, 08:24 PM i assume this function is to smooth out torque curve across a broader rpm range (high and low), similar to what the secondaries do on our engines.... is this a complete ecu control function or can it be actuated using some kind of "home built" circuitry by sensing rpm.... Should be easy enought to do with home circuitry. These type of valves are either on/off, so a simple rpm based switch is the way to go. You may even be able to use the imrc trigger from the pcm if the crossover point is the same. More importantly, look at that VCT setup. It is very simple and looks like you could scrounge the parts pretty cheaply. The controller for it is the biggest problem, but that could be over come with a pcm and wiring harness swap. warmonger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Warmonger, The intake I don't think will be that big of a problem - I can figure out when the valves open (RPM) and do that with RPM based switches. Now the VVT is a whole other subject. The X-Type uses a continuously variable timing , so it's not just on or off. Also the VVT part is on the Intake camshaft, not the exhaust so it really has to do with the intake charge and it's filling capacity and not with emissions like other VCT systems. I'll include a part of the factory technical guide for you to read: -Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckPuck Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 ok... i just though of something... i beleive the st-220 intake has 2 large copper caps in the are where the mazda 6 intake has theses valves.... does anyone have the actual specs (physical) of theses valves, i'm wondering if they could be fitted to an st220 intake, then with some math, flow bench and other great things, make them open up (maybe even using imrc circuitry)... biggest reason why i want st-220 is because of IAC location... on the mazda 6 it's on top and that would prolly interfere with the hood... /> btw: wouldn't it be great if ford actually uses the same signals to open close theses valves, as it does for the IMRC... doubtful yeah.. but i can wish :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckPuck Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 on another note... look at the runner designs... you could drill a hole on the back side of each runner... out of sight... can anyone say very sneaky NO2 wet port :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warmonger Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Originally posted by Cardoc@Jan 29 2003, 10:29 PM Warmonger, The intake I don't think will be that big of a problem - I can figure out when the valves open (RPM) and do that with RPM based switches. Now the VVT is a whole other subject. The X-Type uses a continuously variable timing , so it's not just on or off. Also the VVT part is on the Intake camshaft, not the exhaust so it really has to do with the intake charge and it's filling capacity and not with emissions like other VCT systems. I'll include a part of the factory technical guide for you to read: -Doc When you examine the cutaway, it looks like the VCT hub is bolted to a standard duratech cam sprocket. Then oil is fed from an oil passage through a feed tube, to the sprocket. Somewhere in there the solenoid is used to control oil flow. According to the article it has chambers or pistons if you will, that push forward and back with relation to the sprocket. The sprockets are locked together by the chain and the VCT hub is the connector between the sprocket and the cam. Looks like you would want to obtain the intake cams, vct oiling parts, and the solenoid. Then you have a control that varies the timing with some strategy. It would take a small programmable microprocessor, but that stuff is getting cheap now. Just look at the G-tech and other gadgets like it that use microprocessors to do complex calculations, and it only costs $135 retail. First order of business is to see how much work and cost it is to hook up vct, then it is a custom vct controller. I know that you would want to vary the camshaft phasing with relation to the crank as rpm increases, so under acceleration the strategy would be simple. It is the sudden changes from accel to idle that require quick response. We would have to come to a consensus as to what position the cam should be in at various loads and engine speeds, then program the controller to work the solenoid. That would be it. The question is: Does the VCT give the engine enough of a boost to make the cost worthwhile? Does anyone have a dyno plot of a torque curve for this engine so we can compare it? warmonger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I'll look into that and see what I can find. You could always go the cheap route and get a V-AFC from Apexi and use it like a VTEC controller (which is basically the same thing) and run the programmable mode so it set's itself up for the best performance (No dyno needed) and it's only $300.00. Plus it can control extra fuel through the MAF as well. Just some thoughts - I have a bunch of AWD stuff to post in the other thread. -Doc Apexi V-AFC info href='http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics_vafc.asp' target='_blank'>here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Affecting the overlap still has a major impact on emissions levels...BTW where is the EGR on this motor???...TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Concerning the IMT valves: Intake Manifold Tuning (IMT) Valve There are two intake manifold tuning (IMT) valves, an upper and a lower, sometimes referred to as number one and two respectively. They are a two position (open and close) device used to create a variable air intake system. The IMT valve positions are switched by signals from the PCM to optimize torque across the engine´s speed and load range. The IMT valves work in conjunction with the throttle body. The upper IMT valve opens between 3,000 and 6,000 rpm while the lower IMT valve opens between 5,000 and 6,000 rpm. This is direct from service material from Jaguar. I don't have any graphs or pics right now to support this. -Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest warmonger Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 So it would seem that they are using two valves to create 3 different pathlengths for the air. Longest at low rpm, then a little shorter, and finally the shortest path at 5-6000 rpm. Sounds to me like it would be superior to the dual runner intake just from that fact. It would definitely be worth a try! I could design the controller for it so that you could use the IMRC to activate the controller, and then the controller would actuate the valves. The IMRC is activated by the PCM based upon load and rpm. Notice that at light throttle positions and rpms above the IMRC opening point it still may not be opened. Basically, as long as the imrc is active, then the controller will just sense rpm and actuate the valves accordingly. I'm ready when someone gets the manifold. warmonger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Converting LS intakes with a sigle flap valve as we speak....will be on 'Mikeyboy's Contour and two others....unles they want to go with the ST220 upper....TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 terry have you gotten a hold of a st220 upper already? i think that i am interested in one if you think it would be a worth while upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts