camper33 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 When oh when are Americans going to realize that when they buy from other Americans, those other Americans will have the income to buy the products and / or services that THEY produce ? On the other hand, when we buy "offshore" products, that money only seems to come back in two main ways. One, when those other countries come here and buy our lands, our buildings, and our businesses right out from underneath us. Two, of course there are also the times when this money ends up in the hands of the likes of Ossama Bin Laden, and it comes back to the "west", in the form of terrorists killing, maiming, and destroying our infrastructure. BUY AMERICAN MADE. BUY UNION MADE. Alec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 ...on destroying our infrastructure. I think states and ourselves have ignored it for too long and let it slip into disrepair and is out of date due to ...greed.What modern country STILL runs power lines on 'sticks' that fall down in a storm etc?...Too mean to upgrade systems...all in the name of cash. I think it's a bit late on jobs etc.There is very little Mfg in the USA these days...drive around the state I live in, Michigan...thousands of jobs gone...worst unemployment in USA.....Bit late to try to buy and consume what the country no longer makes!!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ContourLX Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Alec, I disagree with your statement, even though I buy US made products. I buy them hoping that the quality will be better than if they were made anywhere else. Unfortunately, in the auto-industry, it's a big let-down. If you buy American products out of sympathy, the manufacturers will never think about global competition and will continue to sell lower quality products. If you look at it the other way and not buy American products, they'll realize the issue and hopefully improve their products. Saturn is a good example of this. They've improved their product line and are hoping to compete with Japanese cars. Even GM is trying but I don't know what Ford is upto. I recently was going to buy Autolite spark plugs for my Contour, but when I found out that Motorcraft plugs are made in the USA, I bought Motorcraft. I do that with a lot of products except for cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatImprezaGuy Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I buy the best I can afford, which almost always means NOT AMERICAN. I don't think I should have to settle for poor quality products for the sake of UNION jobs. Make good products and i'll buy them, until then... well, good luck relying on patriotism to peddle your garbage. I have no sympathy for unions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 ...makes no odds.Either unions or overpaid CEO's will get your dosh in the end....Pity the USA consumer won't be around to 'consume' in the near future...A lack of a well paying job tends to restrict your spending power...even if it is on goods made overseas!!!!!...Just a thought!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuukaatz Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I buy the best I can afford, which almost always means NOT AMERICAN. I don't think I should have to settle for poor quality products for the sake of UNION jobs. Make good products and i'll buy them, until then... well, good luck relying on patriotism to peddle your garbage. I have no sympathy for unions You must work in some service type industry that doesn't pay very well. Unfortunately it's people like you that put yourselves out of good paying manufacturing jobs that were once the heart of this country. Just as there are poor quality American made products, there are poor quality foreign made products. I'd rather buy the 2nd highest quality product being American made than the highest quality being foreign. Shop around, read all the fine print, become an educated consumer. Yes some unions have surpassed thier purpose, but it's not always the unions fault. However, look what is happening to this country, unions shrinking, middle class shrinking...think thier's a connection...something to ponder I would say....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuukaatz Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 You must work in some service type industry that doesn't pay very well. Unfortunately it's people like you that put yourselves out of good paying manufacturing jobs that were once the heart of this country. Just as there are poor quality American made products, there are poor quality foreign made products. I'd rather buy the 2nd highest quality product being American made than the highest quality being foreign. Shop around, read all the fine print, become an educated consumer. Yes some unions have surpassed thier purpose, but it's not always the unions fault. However, look what is happening to this country, unions shrinking, middle class shrinking...think there's a connection...something to ponder I would say....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 When oh when are Americans going to realize that when they buy from other Americans, those other Americans will have the income to buy the products and / or services that THEY produce ? On the other hand, when we buy "offshore" products, that money only seems to come back in two main ways. One, when those other countries come here and buy our lands, our buildings, and our businesses right out from underneath us. Two, of course there are also the times when this money ends up in the hands of the likes of Ossama Bin Laden, and it comes back to the "west", in the form of terrorists killing, maiming, and destroying our infrastructure. BUY AMERICAN MADE. BUY UNION MADE. Alec. Wow am I shocked to see BUY UNION MADE at the end of that pile of poo. Have you ever even read anything on the history of economy? Buy whatevers best. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 If you buy American products out of sympathy, the manufacturers will never think about global competition and will continue to sell lower quality products. If you look at it the other way and not buy American products, they'll realize the issue and hopefully improve their products. ttt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam98SVT Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I'd rather buy the 2nd highest quality product being American made than the highest quality being foreign. I wonder why so many foreigners dislike Americans. WE ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME COMPOST HEAP Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 ....WE ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME COMPOST HEAP... ..... my 'ol man used to say it like this...'.....it's a bit like horse s**t son (compost!!)...., if you spread it around it does some good but left in a pile it just smells like ......s**t!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeSVT Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I keep reading numerous people kicking Ford saying they'll never buy anything else but their Contour... I'm sorry - That's a pretty naive statement to make without at least looking what Ford has to offer. We bought a Brand new 2007 Fusion SE for my fiancee over a year ago. She now has 11,000 miles on it and absolutely loves it. Period. Ford has IMO the best trucks on the market... There is no "perfect" car and going by Honda's or Toyota's track records telle me nothing (I worked as a Toyota Service Manager) so I can speak from experience what is better quality and what isn't. First off, lets start with maintenance. Why do you think Foreign cars last so long? Better built? No, actually some of the cars I've dealt with were big time lemons. HOWEVER - Consumers are "trained" and "forced" from the buying process to stick to the manufacturers service schedule like stink on shiz. There is no tolerance and anything less will void your warranty. Now - Let's look at GM / FORD. 100,00 mile tune ups, and crap like that make "American" buyers think you can just turn the key and drive for 100K with no maintenance. WRONG! You can't just drive the car without servicing it... Some even don't change oil for 30,000 miles at a time (I've seen it, it's pretty sad). Should just weld the hood shut or not offer a release to customers - Why when you don't need it?? Anyone remember when Toyota had to replace engines (4cyl and 6cyl) for sludging? Wasn't because people weren't changing their oil - It was a bad design. Don't think even the "perfect" automakers don't make mistakes now and then. However that mistake would've been widely overspread if it was American, but only mentioned a few times since it was Toyota. That's bullshit right there... So I guess write Ford off because the "rags" think they are down the drain. Pity everyone believes everything they read. If it wasn't for propaganda this country wouldn't have anything to do... Most of it is bullshit. -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSUMoose1489 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I am definately an American auto supporter. I have never purchased anything that wasn't a ford for myself- the wife had to have a new cherokee, but at least it's american. I refuse to believe that the quality is better in foreign made cars made cheaper. I think Dom has a point- most folks with the top Japanese cars do take them to the dealership for all maintencance. The warranty is an issue as well. Just recently have the big 3 american auto makers been offering a halfway decent warranty. Honda and the up and coming japanese and korean car makers are offering 100k and have been for a while. That makes a big difference and people aren't complaining about their import being a lemon because it keeps getting fixed. Chrysler's new warranty (lifetime powertrain) was STANDARD when they first starting pushing it, I am not sure if it still is or not. That is a huge step in warranty issues with the top 3. I don't think you should buy anything american just to buy american, but if you research you can find something american that will be exactly what you want. I for one am waiting for the day an awd 6 speed 3.5 fusion comes out- SVT or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrApple Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 well my parents have had great luck with there new ford vehicles. They got a 06 mustang gt and a 07 escape. now they did both have battery problem in the first 3k miles, and the excape needed a hose replace because the engine was built wrong, heat hose was pressed up against water pump and it almost cut all the way through when we spotted it, otherwise they have been solid great cars. I recently drove a new taurus x as a rental and was again pleased with it. I only rent Fords as they actually do something well, they drive and handle when compared to the sebring covertable and HHR that I had before as rentals. Parents also rented an edge and fusion on trips and again where very pleased. I have to agree to many people slam some car makes because they buy used and the previous owner didn't do crap to maintain the car so of course there are going to be problems. hell my father even said he would own one of every Ford out the other year if he could because he like them all. didn't Ford just earn high marks for relaiability last year? didn't the fusion outsell alot of other cars on the market last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatImprezaGuy Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You must work in some service type industry that doesn't pay very well. Unfortunately it's people like you that put yourselves out of good paying manufacturing jobs that were once the heart of this country. Just as there are poor quality American made products, there are poor quality foreign made products. I'd rather buy the 2nd highest quality product being American made than the highest quality being foreign. Shop around, read all the fine print, become an educated consumer. Yes some unions have surpassed thier purpose, but it's not always the unions fault. However, look what is happening to this country, unions shrinking, middle class shrinking...think thier's a connection...something to ponder I would say....... Wrong, ask Dom, he'll tell you what I do. As for connection... HA, just because two events coincide does not mean that there is a connection. The clock roll's around, the sun sets. the longer I'm awake the more tired I get. The sun sets about the same time I get sleepy. Does this mean it's the sunset that makes me tired? I keep reading numerous people kicking Ford saying they'll never buy anything else but their Contour... I'm sorry - That's a pretty naive statement to make without at least looking what Ford has to offer. We bought a Brand new 2007 Fusion SE for my fiancee over a year ago. She now has 11,000 miles on it and absolutely loves it. Period. Ford has IMO the best trucks on the market... There is no "perfect" car and going by Honda's or Toyota's track records telle me nothing (I worked as a Toyota Service Manager) so I can speak from experience what is better quality and what isn't. First off, lets start with maintenance. Why do you think Foreign cars last so long? Better built? No, actually some of the cars I've dealt with were big time lemons. HOWEVER - Consumers are "trained" and "forced" from the buying process to stick to the manufacturers service schedule like stink on shiz. There is no tolerance and anything less will void your warranty. Now - Let's look at GM / FORD. 100,00 mile tune ups, and crap like that make "American" buyers think you can just turn the key and drive for 100K with no maintenance. WRONG! You can't just drive the car without servicing it... Some even don't change oil for 30,000 miles at a time (I've seen it, it's pretty sad). Should just weld the hood shut or not offer a release to customers - Why when you don't need it?? Anyone remember when Toyota had to replace engines (4cyl and 6cyl) for sludging? Wasn't because people weren't changing their oil - It was a bad design. Don't think even the "perfect" automakers don't make mistakes now and then. However that mistake would've been widely overspread if it was American, but only mentioned a few times since it was Toyota. That's bullshit right there... So I guess write Ford off because the "rags" think they are down the drain. Pity everyone believes everything they read. If it wasn't for propaganda this country wouldn't have anything to do... Most of it is bullshit. -Dom New tundra engine? hello? LOL But really, the US has indeed made great strides in the automotive market, GM's IQ has gone far up over the past years, while Toyota has been declining. There is still a stigmatism attached to the American car manufacturers, poor quality, of course. Not necessarily true anymore, but the image has not caught up with the truth just quite yet. The media likes to idolize Toyota alot and we tend to see alot of things in their favor. Last year Toyota edged out GM in total worldwide sales for a quarter (i believe), one thing the media did not mention is that Toyota sells almost entirely worldwide, including our market. GM has no Japanese market , and I dont think the government allows it to be honest. The point is, The majority of Toyota's sales were actually in their own country, and for the US market, they were far dominated in sales by the target of their campaign. Maintenance intervals have gone great strides though over the years as well, with full-synthetic oils warranting 10-15,000 mile oil changes, Cars have become more Maintenance-free, but it is true, they still do require maintenance. The only hang-ups I have on American automobiles is the poor interior qualities. The Saab 9-7x makes me sick every time I look at it. This clearly american SUV rebadged with Saab garb. You take a close look at it, and see fender-gaps the size of the grand canyon, lower-quality stampings, poor interior materials, (headliner, carpets, only half-leather seats). This is what I do not like about American automobiles. The union wages and other high-overheads cause them to skimp costs on materials and quality to produce a vehicle within a decent price-range. Sure they could have made it very nice with new materials and more european quality, but not without increasing the price by a good $10,000 a unit, each. All because Mr. Union worker thinks that he can make 80,000 a year to pull a lever all day long. It's funny that the Head of the UAW makes a 7 digit sum annually, yet nobody seems to care? Why should GM/Ford/Chrysler provide you with a retirement that you, UNLIKE every other American must put away savings to provide for? (Don't get me started on Social Security either.) It's not like the Unions are the cause of the quality, because we all know well that European and Asian cars have extremely high quality ratings, and there are no unions there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ContourLX Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Dom, The problem then is that Ford is sending out the wrong message with 100k mile tune-ups. Maybe they should also force customers to get their oil changes and other services done regularly. Toyota dealers charge a lot less for service than Ford dealers and they get it right. I've tried to go to numerous Ford dealers and they always screw-up somewhere, which is probably why I dug up this forum :) (and I like doing a lot of this stuff myself :)) Overall, the quality of Japanese cars has improved a lot. Another example is the Honda minivan. It's known to have transmission issues but the difference is that Honda takes care of them. Two co-workers had Honda Odyssey minivans with tranny issues at 60k. Both were replaced under warranty. 1 of them had a problem again at 90k miles, out of warranty, and Honda replaced the tranny again! No charge whatsoever! Here, on my Contour, I tried to get Ford to replace my fuel pump with the 1/4 tank issue and they refused. Finally, when I talked to a senior person, they said that I would have to take it to a dealer, pay them to look at it, and Ford would reimburse at their discretion, if they thought it was a Ford issue. I even told them about the Focus recall for the same issue recently, but they still refused. It is a dangerous problem. You enter onto a freeway and step down on the gas and the car will hesitate and stall with speeding cars behind you. I agree that each manufacturer has their own set of issues, but if you compare overall numbers, there are many reasons why people are moving to imports. Look at the resale value of any import vs. domestic. There's a good reason why people are paying more for imports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It's not like the Unions are the cause of the quality, because we all know well that European and Asian cars have extremely high quality ratings, and there are no unions there. ...correction.In both UK and Germany they have a union,in fact it's LAW in Germany to have one!!! (Betriebsrat =Workers Council) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ContourLX Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 IMO, quality, price and customer service are 3 major factors that influence customers. For those who can afford everything, of course price is not a concern, but the other 2 definitely are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 IMO, quality, price and customer service are 3 major factors that influence customers. ...thats why Wal-Mart should sell cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!Customers love them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatImprezaGuy Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It's not like the Unions are the cause of the quality, because we all know well that European and Asian cars have extremely high quality ratings, and there are no unions there. ...correction.In both UK and Germany they have a union,in fact it's LAW in Germany to have one!!! (Betriebsrat =Workers Council) Well I didn't know that about Germany, interesting, but, UK and quality cars? sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT_ Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Excellent post. And let us not forget the "Hidden Recall's the Import dealers are notorious for. bring your Honda in for a free oil change courtesy of honda, get your "insert part here" changed without even knowing it. I keep reading numerous people kicking Ford saying they'll never buy anything else but their Contour... I'm sorry - That's a pretty naive statement to make without at least looking what Ford has to offer. We bought a Brand new 2007 Fusion SE for my fiancee over a year ago. She now has 11,000 miles on it and absolutely loves it. Period. Ford has IMO the best trucks on the market... There is no "perfect" car and going by Honda's or Toyota's track records telle me nothing (I worked as a Toyota Service Manager) so I can speak from experience what is better quality and what isn't. First off, lets start with maintenance. Why do you think Foreign cars last so long? Better built? No, actually some of the cars I've dealt with were big time lemons. HOWEVER - Consumers are "trained" and "forced" from the buying process to stick to the manufacturers service schedule like stink on shiz. There is no tolerance and anything less will void your warranty. Now - Let's look at GM / FORD. 100,00 mile tune ups, and crap like that make "American" buyers think you can just turn the key and drive for 100K with no maintenance. WRONG! You can't just drive the car without servicing it... Some even don't change oil for 30,000 miles at a time (I've seen it, it's pretty sad). Should just weld the hood shut or not offer a release to customers - Why when you don't need it?? Anyone remember when Toyota had to replace engines (4cyl and 6cyl) for sludging? Wasn't because people weren't changing their oil - It was a bad design. Don't think even the "perfect" automakers don't make mistakes now and then. However that mistake would've been widely overspread if it was American, but only mentioned a few times since it was Toyota. That's bullshit right there... So I guess write Ford off because the "rags" think they are down the drain. Pity everyone believes everything they read. If it wasn't for propaganda this country wouldn't have anything to do... Most of it is bullshit. -Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Haines Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 ...you may want to watch 'Top Gear' now and then...FWIW the Jaguar X Type was in the top 3 re quality last year...Don't jump too quick,study the country etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatImprezaGuy Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 ...you may want to watch 'Top Gear' now and then...FWIW the Jaguar X Type was in the top 3 re quality last year...Don't jump too quick,study the country etc..... I don't watch that show, the hosts are pretty stuck up. Don't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ContourLX Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 ...thats why Wal-Mart should sell cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!Customers love them... They'd rank 0 in customer service. :) Actually, they'd probably allow you to return a car if you didn't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk2k2 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Personally, having been burnt buying a new Ford vehicle (23 years apart), I WON'T buy another Ford, I won't even look at them. At least not until it's shown the new vehicles aren't going to turn out to be mere pieces of shiz when it has MAJOR failure before it even hits 50K! Or how about, yeah, a warranty that would at least insure that the major failure would be covered until 100,000 miles? I don't give a crap if some idiot figures they don't need to maintain a vehicle because the warranty is so high. I want it to insure ME that after they take my $30,000 I don't end up with worthless junk in 50,000 miles (meaning to fix it costs near what it's even worth). The BS is the auto manufacturer who wants me to believe their vehicle is going to be reliable- no warranty to back it up, just take their word! RIGHT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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